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Thirteen Years of Drowning into Over-Sophistication

Discussion in 'Critique & Feedback' started by Raphael Badawi, Jan 19, 2018.

  1. I think it's helpful for sure. Once you get comfortable you can probably bypass this stage (because you already know it will work)

    I'm right there with you, music is weird like that in that you can bypass entire stages of development.
    (There is no point in trying to solo over 'all the things you are' if you can't do it over a simple blues first)

    I wish i would've gone through this over a decade ago but I didn't...
    I also wish I picked piano as my main instrument, but I didn't..

    I truly wonder if this has to do with the fact you don't play piano Paul.
    If you don't get the things 'under your fingers' (as Mike would say), then I believe you; it's just a mountain of notes/chords to remember
    (which is exactly why just reading a score never does anything useful for me, I can't remember any of it 5 seconds later).
    Also, it's just always at least a step 'removed' from making the connection to the original
     
    Raphael Badawi likes this.
  2. True, I do not play piano, and that might be the reason I do not get anything out of transcribing by ear. At the same time, almost everything I have truly internalized about music came by score study. So, whatever works for each person.
     
    T.j. Prinssen likes this.
  3. I wrote on paper the ideas, chord progressions, bridges, and notated a structure. I also integrated T. J. Prinssen's suggestion ;-)

    So it's at this state now (sorry, I'm not a good piano player):
     
  4. A great example of simple material and simple progression made magical:


    Given the tonality, I believe it's a fairly adequate score in the context of this topic. Moreover, it's easy to replicate by hear.
     
  5. Yikes...not to be a downer, but a Mozart Sonata is definitely not the thing you want to start with for having simple material, with simple progressions, and easy to hear. It's designed to be immediately appealing, and feel simple, but there's a lot going on underneath the hood. The short answer on why it's going to give you trouble is that the Sonata-Allegro form (that'd be the first section of the example you put up) is built to GO places. Sophistication is built into the design - the progression has to move from one place to another, it has to go all sorts of places in the development section, and it has to go back to where it started by changing everything in the recapitulation. It'd be like someone wanted to study car engines and starting with an RX-7 Wankel.

    No joke, I'd start with something like this:



    If for no other reason than seeing how Beethoven can make dozens of ways for two chords, in the simplest forms possible, into interesting music. Not the MOST interesting music, but there's a lot there, despite what isn't there, if that makes sense.
     
    Raphael Badawi likes this.
  6. Whats up with you guys? :D Mozart, Beethoven..Imo he should start with simple pieces and with simple I mean dead simple things like, jingle bells, twinkle twinkle little star, some pop tunes from the 70s or 80s, tv themes ..I mean..you can go with beethoven or mozart, but man..also your example, Brian isn´t a beginners piece to learn to write on basic progressions..with a basic structure..sorry..but this is alll a way over your heads..just my opinion..
     
    Raphael Badawi likes this.
  7. :confused:

     
  8. Yepp I know that Doug, I referred mainly to their pieces posted. Actually that supports my comment which you see in your own post: do and learn by simple pieces first before doing Mozart or beethovens regular repertoire, isn´t it? :) I mean..they can do whatever they like and feel so, it is just suggestion from my side.
     
  9. I'm just jivin ya.

    It is a good one.

    I think the classical suggestions are due to his piece sounding classical.

    Ich wünsche dir das Beste, mein Freund

    Raphael

    Écrire des mélodies à une seule ligne.
    deux mesures suffisent.
    Chante-les
    Définir des mots à la musique
    Pensez à la façon dont vous parleriez ces mots naturellement
    Les mots et le rythme créeront les mélodies dans votre esprit
    Un poème ou une histoire aura une arche naturelle.
    La composition musicale a été enseignée avec la rhétorique
    Rappelez-vous qu'il ne doit pas être long.

    tous les gratte-ciels doivent être construits avec une base solide

    apolgoies pour notre président génie génial
    quel enfoiré connard

    Meilleurs vœux
     
  10. #30 Alexander Schiborr, Jan 23, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
    Danke! Much appreciated. You too :)! Didn´t know you speak french, so what is your conclusion? I will take a closer listen to his piece later.
     
  11. I actually played on the piano the Mozart's Ah vous dirais-je maman variations several years ago. Didn't get bad habits from it. On the contrary, I did get bad habits by playing extensively Bach's Musical Offering (the ricercar a3 is my favorite piece ever). So it's how what you choose to play is crucial! I do regret not to have more time to practice, two mornings a week is kind of short. Any ways, now that I play the lines separately and notate simple harmony and structure, I have better hopes to overcome some of the bad habits. Answer in two weeks (I have to arrange string parts for a metal band this week-end).

    Thanks for all the help! (I mean, it really helps.)
     
    Alexander Schiborr likes this.

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