1. Didja accidentally blow through the whole, "We're using our real names" thing on registration? No problem, just send me (Mike) a Conversation message and I'll get you sorted, by which I mean hammered-into-obedient-line because I'm SO about having a lot of individuality-destroying, oppressive shit all over my forum.
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Request for Video on Development

Discussion in 'Info, Requests, etc.' started by Paul T McGraw, Dec 17, 2018.

  1. I was following along with you nodding my head, until you got to that last part. I don't play keyboard, never have, and at age 66 I can safely say, never will. How about string quartet? Or brass quintet? I like the idea of the challenge, but not for the keyboard.
     
    Mauro Pantin likes this.
  2. Now that you mention it, I think everyone could do it in their most comfortable instrument(s) or ensemble as longs as you don't change them mid-way, which was the point of restricting it to the piano. Anything goes, I think, provided we don't use changing timbres as a way of development.
     
  3. ^^^ Sounds great to me!
     
    Mauro Pantin likes this.
  4. Would it be more fair to say that school, at optimal function, provides and facilitates an environment for the development of existing effort and skills, including community and opportunities? I'm not sure anyone is saying school causes greatness -- there is no educational program guaranteed to do that, in any subject or field; the better ones simply know how to discriminate properly. It's still a matter of effort and willingness to learn, in the end. But just about every famous composer in history had some form of mentor, or studied under someone great, before going off on their own. School isn't really guaranteed to provide that anymore, unfortunately, but it seems to facilitate an environment where seeking it out is easier (until the internet, perhaps). As an aside, it will be interesting to see how these programs survive and change in the coming years, whether solidifying themselves through changing educational curriculum (working wonders in gradeschool, for the record), morphing into little more than networking opportunities, or shutting down entirely. Certain university programs, largely because of cost, the availability of information on the internet, and cultural decline taking the form of meddling politics, probably won't exist in 20-30 years in a serious matter, i.e. social sciences.
     
  5. They are nutritious AND delicious!


    That sounds interesting, if time permits I'd join.


    I have the book and a few years ago read half of it and stopped because it's all way above my level of musical literacy. I can't properly read notation and it's hard for me to follow. I'm not familiar with his work, listening to the piece you've linked for the second time now. I really want to like him, because it would give me motivation to take a second shot at reading the book and maybe getting more out of it this time around, when reading it through the lense of all the things I've learned this year. I've read a bit of the foreword again and he seems to be quite critical of academic musical education as well. Originally I bought the book only based on amazon reviews.
    I think even if it's not super applicable for me, it might be interesting to get a glimpse into the mind of a reasonably successful classical composer.
    Thanks a lot for linking that video, I think I like this a lot more than the other piece from him that I tried (link below).

     
  6. @Martin Hoffmann I wish I could tell you that the book gets clearer as you go, but it doesn't. If you are looking for a book with practical advice on compositional techniques I would recommend Analyzing Classical Form by William Caplin. Audio examples are provided via the internet. Although the primary emphasis is on form, it is also the best book on melodic writing I have found. The book is describing compositional techniques in the era of Mozart and Beethoven, but by using modern harmonies (including modal interchange and progressions using chromatic thirds) and modern orchestration techniques, everything in that book becomes relevant.

    At his peak of fame, Hindemith was seen as the primary alternative to the Second Viennese School of composition (Schoenberg and his students) for the future of classical music. People like Rachmaninoff and Sibelius were considered to be late romantics who had no shot at being remembered. Funny, isn't it. Anyway, lots of academics ended up siding with the Second Viennese School and I think Hindemith never got over that. He despised Schoenberg and the atonalists. And of course, as a result of the triumph of the Second Viennese School, countless university trained composers churned out millions of hours of "tone row" music that no one will ever listen to, thank God.

    For some reason, Hindemith's quartal harmony resonates with me. I don't usually respond well to alternatives to CPE harmony. I actually really like the Metamorphosis, but I think I must be in a minority.
     
    Martin Hoffmann likes this.
  7. Thanks for the warning, I'll see how far I get this time around :D.


    I had one melody from it stuck in my head, but it was one that I didn't really like.
     
  8. Mike - I understand your position on academic training. Honestly, I get it, but please don't throw the baby out with the bath water.:eek: Paul's excellent suggestion above as it really is a terrific idea and something that could shed light on a major weakness many modern day composers face. And more importantly, this could just be a lot of damn good fun (and much needed inspiration for us all). Its time for another Masterclass and what better topic than practical examples of exploring development ideas? And what's a poor boy to do who has $30 burning a hole in his pocket and nothing to do over the holidays A new Masterclass on practical development would be a surefire favorite class and best seller.

    And if you're not up to it, that's cool too. Its not like we're gonna die or anything being forced to only watch re-runs.:(

    Seriously though, wishing you and your family happy holidays and a Merry Christmas! :)
     
  9. I think what you guys are looking for is already covered in the Putting It All Together video, if you haven't seen it yet. It isn't a preset class, but I think seeing the motivation for each development, and then how he developed the themes offers more benefit.
     
  10. Ok, seriously man, what the hell did they do to you at music school???? ;) Lmao. I enjoyed my time at music school for the most part, although there were definitely aspects of it that irritated me... like the occasional snobbery directed at popular and/or film music. But, those things didn't happen that frequently.

    Also, when you were at USC, did you get to study with Buddy Baker at all? I met him when I was looking at different schools and he was just the nicest guy to me. Seemed really cool.
     
  11. I was a Sigma Chi - I had plenty of fun at school, trust me. It's just not where one learns any of the things which make a good composer. It's cart-before-the-horse. I don't know what evidence could me more damning that our entire approach to teaching music is a failure than the insignificant percentage of great composers our process turns out. If our music schools taught architecture we'd be surrounded by piles of building rubble, with only slightly fewer people arguing in support of the quality of education. One thing's for sure - you definitely don't need a degree to write music professionally; nobody will ever ask nor care. I mean, obviously. I never studied with Buddy Baker, but I've heard nothing but great things about him. Lots of great people on staff at USC. That's never the problem.
     
    Patrick McClanahan likes this.
  12. I'm looking forward to the woodwinds and strings masterclasses. Those brass players looked like they had a blast!
     

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