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Victorian Post Mortem Overture No.1 in C-Major

Discussion in 'Critique & Feedback' started by Alexander Schiborr, Sep 8, 2019.

  1. #1 Alexander Schiborr, Sep 8, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
    Hej Guys,

    After a long long break this year I had a bit more time to write my first Overture. I actually created the whole suite in 1 week and I am actually sketching out the orchestration for it.
    Normally I post only music links but this time I wanted a visual representation of the music at it might help to understand the harmony, voicings and so many more things better. Also that you can see it and I think that way sharing the work can be useful to some of you probably. I mapped out during the process of that track an entire developmental map and a storyline embedded influenced by the Noir movies from the 30s and 40s, but also from late Romantic Victorian times and I surrounded myself using foto material and video footage to get inspired also.

    Having said that my good mate Aaron helped with the visualisation because I have no skills whatsoever creating videos like that, so big big thank you to @Aaron Venture helping me out. Also I did sent my earlier stage drafts forth and back to my best friends @Dillon DeRosa and @Doug Gibson who also gave me great suggestions and I am still working on some of their input. But here is so far the complete track what I have created so far:

  2. damn that was cool man, definitely felt the noir vibe. I really like the contrast between all the crazy stuff and the main theme when it comes back. I can't wait to hear what you do with the orchestration, that ending section is gonna sound badass.
  3. Very cool and pretty amazing what you're doing Alexander. I like how your development progresses throughout. Great idea laying it out as piano sketch first, that makes a lot of sense. One thing, I can't tell from the piano sketch is how you intend to orchestrate it as I hear a melody and harmony but they don't indicate to me specific instrumentation, so I'll have to wait to see what you have planned.

    One interesting thing is that the old masters almost always wrote out piano sketches for four-hands. On one hand (no pun intended), this would seem more difficult to write out, as the composer has only has two hands. However, with a DAW, maybe this would be easier today than it was for the old masters? I'm not sure of the reason they so often wrote out in four-hands although possibly it was to sketch out the orchestration as well? And back then, everyone played piano and there were pianists everywhere (who could read fluently) so they could just have someone come over and play through a symphony or two. Not trying to make a point here other than just sharing thoughts about piano sketching. I look forward to hearing where you take this.
  4. I think this is going to be a wonderful piece. I love the drama and contrasts you have created. I am really looking forward to hearing your orchestrated version. Also the rest of the suite. I would bet that it will be terrific.
    Alexander Schiborr likes this.
  5. #5 Alexander Schiborr, Sep 9, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
    Hej Alex,

    Yeah, I tried to mix a bit the elements here and there, at times it is definitely more of a late romantic era vibe, but then but also a bit 40s. However these things a fluid. Yesterday I took a listen to a various themes also from Chopin and there are sections where you can clearly here how the 40s took inspiration from late romantic era music..I mean, its all over the place though they worked a lot more with controlled dissonance even in the lighter parts.
    Well, the orchestration will be not easy tbh...I am bit smashing my head about that.

    Hej Gregory,

    Yes definitely at times I had that 4 hand thing going on which I deliberately do get a slight better idea what the orchestra might sound like just in terms of dense harmony and intensity. Well if you would stay with 2 hands all the timeI would have to write down what I have to add with the orchestration, and so that makes a bit easier for me. I am not sure why they did certain things, for me it is clear that the 4 hand situations are therefore to capture a bit more the intended orchestration probably. At least for me and that is the reason why I do or did that.

    Hello Paul,

    Thanks, mate, I love that dramatic music. I hope I don´t screw it up with the orchestration. WIll be a challenge..

    @Doug Gibson Btw: Yesterday I watched the movie Laura and analyzed a bit the underscore and orchestration. Great movie btw.

    Believe my mates, I am hot like a German Bratwurst to make that track as good as can in the end, composition and orchestration wise.
  6. Thanks for sharing, Alexander! I LOVE the interaction between the harmony and melody on your piece. The contrast is what draws you in. And I'm sure the ending will be killer once it's orchestrated.

    How's the orchestration coming along?
    Alexander Schiborr likes this.
  7. #7 Alexander Schiborr, Sep 9, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
    Well, I started to orchestrating the whole beginning and my goal is to have a very tasteful orchestration so..man that is not easy..anyways..I am sketching out things..I think the hard thing here is to take the time not to overorchestrate the stuff, because otherwise you fire out too much of the colors and options..so thats really..tough part also to switch to the different section to make them work..because delicate orchestration is probably much more difficult than putting everything in what you have.
    Mauro Pantin likes this.
  8. That is so far..a sketch..man that is not easy to orchestrate..fu**jfsdjdfjsd shit..:D

  9. Hey Alexander,
    nice piece so far and the orchestration sketch has the right vibe, it immediately evokes the appropriate Victorian imagery in mind.
    What I do not hear at all is the "film noir" sound. Hmh, but I'm probably too much on Bernard Herrmann calibrated. Your music is "to sweet and nice" (IMHO) for the more dirty, rough film noir sound. Does that make sense?
    Oh by the way: we both work together, if only indirectly, for years together! Did you know that? :-D
    Because I am one of the soundmixers & sound designers of the "Wilde & Holmes" audio dramas and I have to put your music in the mix. Since then I'm a fan of your music. :)
    Alexander Schiborr likes this.
  10. Hej Doug, I went through your review. Thanks a lot and I will reply soon. Today I have a bit of remote guitar work to do for a friend who is scoring a movie. So hang on.
  11. Hi Marcel,
    Great to see you here. Yes, thats a point what you mentioned. Its a potpourri a bit. There are a parts where I grabbed inspiration from Film Noir especially from movies like Notorious and Laura. But also this piece was inspired by Tschaikowskys work and Ponchielli and maybe even a tiny bit of Williams when it comes to that light orchestration though..he has it from Tschaikowsky also. As I love the romantic era music also a lot I tried a bit to incooportate that heavy Dom7, dim, half dim, Minor construction yard. What I still have to learn is more controlled dissonance which you can hear here and there but I am not a level 4-6 in terms of what Adam Neely does. You know I am more a rookie level 1 (Tritone Subs + Dim Major 7 Subs) + usage of extensions)
    That we worked together somehow, yes I am aware of that. And cool that you dig my stuff. Thank you so much.
    Best wishes,
  12. No such thing exists. I'll make you a screencast later today. I just want to further clarify so you don't think I was saying anything in relation to the above.

    Well..... it might be "in relation" but it is not at all the "core" concept I was talking about.

    (* I've never watched any Adam Neely video, though I see him on my youtube feed. It's not a knock, as I am sure he (and Rick Beato too) know their stuff,
    but all videos are going to be general rather than prescriptive. Just like most of my posts here)
    Alexander Schiborr likes this.
  13. #15 Alexander Schiborr, Sep 11, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
    Hej mate,

    I Went also through your review. I wrote a few things down..that on the "nose thing" "introducing themes"and some more is definitely something to care and watch out about. Good exercise could be to reharmonize the beginning motif from a diatonic frame to a very loose nondiatonic frame. You know..from absolutely inviting to absolutely what the fuck harmonisation or style. Regarding the level 4-6..actually I don´t think in such categories but I just thought to give marcel a kind of measurement (if he watched that substitution level video). Regarding orchestration: I sketch out very basic on paper (Melody, Harmony, bass) with a kind focus view (What I want to have in the focus?)

    PS: Can you maybe give me a quick short list of the music pieces from your review (those unnamed ones..for transcription usage)..I wanted tomorrow go back to some piano practising and studying jazz chords (doing a break from orchestrating) and reflecting the output, you know..
  14. #16 Alexander Schiborr, Sep 11, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2019
    @Doug Gibson: Another thing: I deliberately chose not to give the brass section a big appearance during the first 4:30 minutes. Most of the time they simply don´t play, apart from the little crescendo support section at 2:20 mark. They really start getting a usage at 4:30 min in the orchestration. You often say: Come on give them something to play. I am aware of that, but I don´t think due to the length and build up narrative and drama of the piece to introduce them earlier. Would they been pissed sitting there 4 minutes? What is your opinion on that? here is the workflow orchestration so far until ending at the first climx grandioso part where I felt to do a break. (It can happen during the production that I will wrap up things at least a bit or make alternatie heavier re-harmonisation harmony on some of the reps there either completely or revoicing chords, also I might get a feeling to add a bit more of pace to the overall piece? like + 10db, just a galop more?)

    (let me know if gd makes problems again..)
  15. Umm...... I think so. What did I put up? I'll look and let you know.

    Can you tell me what is the name of this sandwich?

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/q9emrt24lisezj8/German Sandwhich.mov?dl=0
  16. Actually I think that this is some kind of "Brötchen mit Lebenkäse" so there is no direct translation but it is basically a bread roll with a bavarian style meatloaf, you know. Very tasty imo.
  17. Hmmmm.....o_O

    I wouls pass by (for example) coffee shops with names that looked like
    and all I could think was the has to know that is never going to catch on. Burger king.....easy. catchy.

    Aldi...... we can handle that. Kaufland .... that's my limit.

    Thread derail:

    Next post will be back on topic

    Aaron Venture likes this.

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