1. Didja accidentally blow through the whole, "We're using our real names" thing on registration? No problem, just send me (Mike) a Conversation message and I'll get you sorted, by which I mean hammered-into-obedient-line because I'm SO about having a lot of individuality-destroying, oppressive shit all over my forum.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. You're only as good as the harshest criticism you're willing to hear.
    Dismiss Notice

Need Feedback and Support for B section -

Discussion in 'Critique & Feedback' started by Hur Ozan Cerrahoglu, May 11, 2020.

  1. Hello Everyone,

    I am trying to come up with a major B section and then connect main melody. On B section I need support or any advice.

    For A section all feedbacks welcome.

    I added virtual piano for Mike :):)

    Please note that this is not traditional orchestral piece, i wanted to step into that cinematic realm for a moment as much as i can. There is a percussion loop on going.

    Disclaimer : I am not a piano player at all, all playing you see (or don't see) here is by repeating Mike's fingers (as much as i could) from his masterclasses :):)
    Sylvain Provenzano likes this.
  2. Ok, I take a wild guess.

    I think what you are looking to do at B is to pull it back and make it a bit more reflective and sentimental before returning to your main
    theme and lift it back up.

    One thing to warn you about is the "jamming to the drum loop". I think that is actually keeping you from connecting better with the ear of your mind.

    What I think is holding back the piece is the number of layers. In this case, and for this genre, I am actually going to say you need MORE VERTICAL DEVELOPMENT.

    If it was me, I would at 1:15 I would begin going full "Ride of the Valkyries".

    Your Viking feels like he needs some Benzedrine.

    In music theory what I am about to suggest is often called "the surface" or "Texture" or even more vague "Gesture"

    You have a progression like


    but you can play one at a time. Below could be an orchestration. One family plays the padding, another adds a faster "surface" to the music.


    If you let the brass take the lead melody role you can have the strings doing all the "Waves of water crashing" effects.

    I've posted this here a few times. In this example, the strings are only playing D minor and E major.

    I think if you kick it up a notch, your B section will come to life. To say it another way: If B is a contrast to A, there must be something to contrast.

    I think.....and it is a guess..... you want to kick it into 5th gear and let B section be the dip/breath needed.

    Another thing to consider is how much foli, and sound effects your music will need to cut through.

    Hope this is of some help.

    Aaron Venture likes this.
  3. #1 take off those gloves, for God's sake, man.

    #2 This piece squarely and surely falls into the category of "should be developed on piano." You do not need to be an accomplished player, however, playing the piano will help with your playing of the piano. More importantly, it will inform you as to the inherent interest in your piece, it will inform you about orchestration, and voice leading.
  4. I am trying trying master.. Hands are getting so wet after few minutes... Yes i tried to develop entire thing on piano this time... The orchestration i wanted it to be like a chamber orchestra (celli and winds) to state the loneliness of the solitary guy. In B section i am trying to explore the major version, using a lot of sus and 7th chord (maybe first time ever). Not sure about the structure. so we made A,A,B(some crescendo),C,C (as B section) and then what to do? Shall we simply come back to A and exit perhaps?
  5. @Mike Verta Here is piano only version for B section and without gloves..

  6. Dear Doug, thank you for this sea of answers again. You threw me into infinite cosmos of possibilities, i will enjoy the exploration of these ideas asap thanks,.
  7. Dear Mike,

    I don't know how to thank you for this video response man.. Thanks and thanks again..

    One thing i wanted to ask again quickly is the A-flat passing tone. ))

    The plan was, this is a small "B" section for a piece which has an A section in C minor.

    So, Eb chord I was starting (on my head) was actually 3rd chord of C minor scale and it seem to be ok to handle the "B" section. Therefore I was using Ab as a passing tone to reach Bb. (third of Gm)... The piece starts with Eb but it's actually some kind of underdog to C minor.

    From your video i am encouraged to handle Eb in B section like a stand alone progression independent from A section, if we use A as passing tone (with lydian feel). So I shouldn't be afraid to go independent in B section with Eb progression?

    Many thanks,
  8. #9 Mike Verta, May 13, 2020
    Last edited: May 13, 2020
    Why was your choice to start the B section of a Cmin piece on EbMaj? Have you tried playing a i-iv-V-i progression (Cmin - Fmin - G7 - Cmin) and then following it with Ebmaj? That is often/usually going to feel more like a modulation, vs furtherance of an idea. Contrast that with going to an AbMaj instead, and feel the difference. Anything is doable and justifiable, but you're working against yourself in this regard, I think.
  9. Hello Mike,

    This piece came long way with Cmin and rather sad melodies. I wanted to give a major twist in B section and planned to go back to minor for final statement and put it to bed there. Eb is naturally 3rd chord of Cmin. (As if when writing some piece on Cmajor, usually Aminor can be a B section or vice versa)(if one's vocabulary is limited:))) So i wanted to go with Eb in this case, tried to add in sus and 7ths as much as I can pick. But there could be million better ways to create B section.. Please rain on me some idea on this i am all ears...

    About inversion Eb, actually I wanted to think that Jazz pianist concept where bass note is taken care of bass player (In orchestration i had a Pizz-Bass down there) so i didn't worry about it. But how did you hit the tonic and played the 2nd inversion 3 voices at the same with left hand?? :):)

    About beating on piano you are so right )) I am simply boxing sparring with piano due to lack of skills :)

    Thanks a lot for all support. It's priceless for me.
  10. For the reasons we discussed in composition four, going to the relative minor from a major key is perceptually different than going the other way. If you've been in c minor and you wanted to go major, A flat will be your most straightforward option. You don't have to do that, obviously, but if you're not trying to feel like you've moved on to a whole other thing, but instead creating a B section which is related to your A section, E flat is a much harder sell. And while you're developing an idea use the bass notes you're ultimately going to use. In this case it might have stopped you from some clumsy voice leading.
  11. Thanks a lot for this... )) Will try asap!

  12. Dear Doug,

    Hope you are well.

    After you provided example 8, i checked all vimeo videos to see if I can find under your profile more examples, it seems some examples are simply not there.

    I see, 1,7,8,9, 10, 11. Is this all or some videos are missing?

    Many thanks,

    Doug Gibson likes this.

  13. I created a thread here on Redbanned which has all the videos available. It's somewhere on here.

    @Rohann van Rensburg: Do you recall where these are located on Redbanned?
  14. Thank you, especially this one :

    is absurdly useful... Thank you ))
    Doug Gibson likes this.
  15. Thank you for the kind words.

    Wishing you all the best
  16. #17 Hur Ozan Cerrahoglu, May 18, 2020
    Last edited: May 19, 2020
    Dear Doug,

    Here is a small appreciation screen video; I am studying your tutorial video byte per byte... Thanks...

  17. Doug Gibson likes this.
  18. Least I can do for providing that to us!

Share This Page