1. Didja accidentally blow through the whole, "We're using our real names" thing on registration? No problem, just send me (Mike) a Conversation message and I'll get you sorted, by which I mean hammered-into-obedient-line because I'm SO about having a lot of individuality-destroying, oppressive shit all over my forum.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. You're only as good as the harshest criticism you're willing to hear.
    Dismiss Notice

My "Mix Like Williams" Quest - And You Can Too!

Discussion in 'Critique & Feedback' started by Noam Levy, Aug 25, 2017.

  1. Hey all,

    This is a mockup of "Fawkes The Phoenix" from John Williams' concert suite for Harry Potter. My goal was to use this piece to reverse-engineer a balanced orchestral template.

    LINK To Listen

    I posted this a few weeks ago and there were some people interested in mixing/remixing with my stems. I would be happy to make the stems available to everyone here over the weekend. It would be a fun challenge to see how close to real we can get the sound to Shawn Murphy's work on the original scores.

    For now, I am open to critiques about instrument balance (or anything else, musicality, phrasing etc), I want to improve the stems as much as I can before I finalize them.

    Thanks for listening.
     
  2. I try taking weekends off to do other stuff but I always seem to end up back in the studio. I'm in :D

    There's some clicking at 0:28. And violins are machine-gunning at 0:41. Other than that I think it's fine.
     
  3. I'm uploading all the stems now to a DropBox folder where y'all can download them. Have fun!

    Goes without saying to everyone here, but please do not take credit for this work. I am sharing this for educational/fun purposes.

    STEMS for RedBanned Forum

    These are v2 of the stems, I'm still working on v3 which will be the final version. Because I've been mocking everything up on a dinky MBP (which means striping: a session for strings, winds, half the brass, the other half of the brass...) it's been iterative. Each time I put it all together I notice things to change. But these stems are good enough to share.

    Here are some heads-up

    1 - no celeste stem yet, I gotta fix it
    2 - all stems are in recorded position EXCEPT the three close stems for brass (Close1, Close2, ORTF), the harp stems, and the piano stems - those are centered
    3 - the harp is recorded very very quietly
    4 - PUT A LIMITER ON THE MASTER - WATCH OUT on first playback, the levels are too hot
     
    Paul T McGraw likes this.
  4. I'm not seeing all the instruments on the stems link - in fact I see no strings at all or piano. Not sure what else may be missing. fyi
     
  5. #5 Noam Levy, Aug 26, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2017
    Yep sorry - Dropbox f'd up overnight. It shouldn't be more than 2-3 more hours.

    EDIT: all set :) total of 87 stems and 1 reference mix.
     
  6. #6 Aaron Venture, Aug 28, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2017
    Alrighty, here it is. I've spent a couple of hours on it, I feel like it's pretty close.

    I'm posting two WAV versions, the difference only being the EQ on the master (overall tone of the mix). First one is as close as I could get to the original track, and the second one is how I like it, it's how I would have EQed the mix (slightly different character and more midrange).

    Original in FLAC: http://bit.ly/2wh588S

    Shawn EQ: http://bit.ly/2vuAlUy

    Aaron EQ: http://bit.ly/2vjkFHM
     
  7. #7 Noam Levy, Aug 28, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2017
    Damn, that's good Aaron! :)

    The spatialization and balance of instruments is great.You got really, really close to the real thing here... I prefer your AV mix to your SM mix, it feels nicely bright and magical! Overall you definitely get more of a "flurry of activity" feeling in your mix than what I'm working with right now. That could just be apparent loudness ;) but it really works.

    In terms of critiques, the reverb tail feels like it's building up a lot. I'm struggling with this in my mix, where turning up the verb detracts from clarity and presence. And, there's a compressor on your brass bus I think? In your mix it leaps out at me, but I'm not sure if that's just because I've been listening to this mockup way too much.

    Overall it's great and lots of fun to hear your take on the piece. Thanks!
     
  8. #8 Aaron Venture, Aug 28, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2017
    Thanks! I know what you mean. I would definitely recommend a great transient shaper (I use the multiband one from iZotope Neutron), as it help really bring the mix to life, both on certain tracks and on the master. It helps if you don't overslam everything in the mixing phase :D


    You're right. I actually left the decay on my Lexicon at 2.6sec (Bass has RTx2.25 so it was over 5 in total LOL). I guess it was kind-of late :D I dialed it back.

    Actually there wasn't. I had a Blue Stripe shaving off 10db and really farting out its character, but it was set to 20% mix to just add some mojo on the parallel. You mean the horns at marker 33, right? They blare out way over the top and trigger the G-series on the master and the whole mix ducks.

    So here it is with shorter RTs and horns on the leash: http://bit.ly/2gjyEHb

    Thanks once again, it's been fun doing it :D
     
    Paul T McGraw and Noam Levy like this.
  9. Here is the final mix by Eugene Latsko! (goes by "Grim Universe" over on VIC)



    I did a rough mix and then Eugene did an amazing job with the fine mix I think. He even did volume automation on each woodwind track to try to add more phrasing and musicality. Both of us agreed we can't wait for Cinematic Studio Woodwinds to come out ;)

    Y'all are welcome to continue playing with these stems, just please do not post anything to Soundcloud or VIC. Dropbox like Aaron did is ideal!
     
    Paul T McGraw likes this.
  10. Sounds great,(see also ViC): but he drawed automation curves in the waves to add more expression, right understood?
     
  11. @Noam Levy outstanding work. You really worked CSS and BWW. I was reading both of your threads on VIC. And one thing stood out to me in your workflow. Is it correct that you actually sketch the pieces out in notation first and then drop them into a DAW and draw out the dynamics curves, velocity, note start, etc.? Being a horrible piano player, this type of work flow does appeal to me. Do you still have the "CSS + Elgar = Magic" project files (The VIC link is dead)? I love to compare the midi files to written score to see some of the mechanics.
     
  12. I really, really like this final mix. Marvelous work.
     
    Noam Levy and Aaron Venture like this.
  13. Thanks! 'Tis my job, after all :D
     
    Noam Levy likes this.
  14. @Noam Levy I just caught your youtube vid. Great work! I would post it here but I didn't know if you wanted it posted. For me lacking piano skills, your approach was inspiring. One question: In you video you mentioned that you stuck to JW dynamic markings and this was essential to getting that great sound. How do you go about setting your dynamics? For me I just go by timbre. I kind of know what a flute sounds like a p so I ride the mod wheel until I "hear" a timbre that is close. How did you go about that for the different libraries?
     

Share This Page