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COVID Vax - Are you going to take it?

Discussion in 'The RedBanned Bar & Grill' started by TD Gary, Dec 11, 2020.

  1. What it says on the tin. Vaccine for the kung flu - are you ready for it? Skeptical?
  2. First I no longer live in the US, so it will reach me later by default.

    That said, and I am only speaking personally for myself, I am a die hard Mountain Dew drinker.

    I don't know how anyone can drink Mountain Dew and with a straight face claim "I am really concerned about what I put in my body".

    I mean when I was in my twenties I was happy enough to eat pills of MDMA and Acid from strangers.........so I should definitely go first.

    Yes !

    I would be very happy to take it.
  3. Maybe in a year or so but probably not.
    TD Gary likes this.
  4. Personally, I'll hold out until there's been some time to work out all the bugs. Honestly I'm not sure I could handle the side effects.

    side effects may include coolness.jpg

    I wouldn't know what to do with myself if I was ever that cool.
    Mike Verta likes this.
  5. An mRNA vaccine developed in 10 months after years of no one being able to develop a normal covid vaccine?


    People need to read up on what an mRNA vaccine does.
    TD Gary likes this.
  6. Yes, as soon as possible.

    The mRNA vaccines were created quickly because of the nature of the technology. You identify the base sequence of what you want the immune system to learn to attack (CV19 surface spikes) then plug that data into your RNA-synthesizing machine. That only takes a few days, cutting years off of the standard process. Moderna, under a previous contract with the NIH, completed that in late January after China sequenced the genome.

    The lengthy part, which follows standard protocol, was the pre-clinical trials (animals) and the three study phases (trials on humans). The trials were very large compared to standard drug studies with shockingly good results for the three companies I'm familiar with (Pfizer, AstraZeneca, Moderna --about 100,000 test subjects).

    Another standard protocol, occurring after certification, is collecting adverse reactions to the drug. My wife worked in this field for 15 year (Pharmacovigilance). They collect contrary incidence reports that might be associated with a drug, gather health data of the individual and determine if it was associated with taking the drug (obsessively audited by the FDA).

    In short, by the time a vax is available to you, 100s millions will have been injected and the side effect will be well know. This is the only reasonable way our economies will return and exhausted healthcare worker will get a break.
    TD Gary and Martin Hoffmann like this.
  7. I’ve read warnings about this mRNA vaccine by people who know more about this than you do. The long term effects of this will not be known for, well, a long time, hence “long term effects.”

    You can trust our psychopathic overlords if you want, but I’m not going to.
    TD Gary likes this.
  8. #8 Alexander Schiborr, Dec 12, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2020
    My last flu shot is 12 years ago. However, I got barely sick during the last 10 years. In fact not one single time. Regarding Covid, I would say minimize certain risks and keep yourself in shape to strenghten your immune system. I am a bit sceptical since there are no long term based studies regarding the new vaccine. Since they really need to bring that thing so quick to the people, there is a lot of pressure involved, not only because time is running. However, if you take the shot or not is a question everybody has to get sorted out on their own. If we are lucky, there will be only that minor side effects what BioNTech already mentioned (I saw an interview with Dr. Şahin). But who really knows. Probably time will tell.

    Germany is facing another hard lockdown (pretty much everything closes apart from supermarkets) most likely starting this Monday (not 100 percent sure but it points in this direction since the new infections within 24 hours of almost 30K hold another sad record).

    When it comes to my own actions and measurements: I just stay away from any people as much as I can. (However, they don´t do the same to me, which shows me that either they don´t care, don´t take it serious enough or they are (understandably?) already tired from all of this).

    However, I don´t meet any friends, I do not do any parties (nothing much of a difference since I am not doing it anyways), no meetings, no family gatherings for over 7 months (my parents are both risk groups because of their medical background and specifically their age).

    However, I wish eveyone still all the best and stay healthy!
    TD Gary and Martin Hoffmann like this.
  9. #9 Josh Fleming, Dec 12, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2020
    There's no a priori reason to suspect that mRNA vaccines have any serious long term effects, outside some fringe cases of people who already have overactive immune systems. What it does is teach the immune system specifically to recognize the sars-cov-2 spike protein. On the other hand, the long term effects of covid are global economic collapse and millions of deaths.

    Science: it works, bitches.
    TD Gary and Martin Hoffmann like this.
  10. It sure does, and has never not worked!

  11. Something to consider before you get jabbed:

    Do your own research on what's best for you.

  12. The thing is: Context. I am sure every medical procedure carries risk.

    You know like those commercials where it begins with "Talk to your doctor about XYZ, to see if it is right for you". The following 90 seconds show smiling old people being active outdoors while a list of horrible things is being spoken about by the narrator. "May cause anal leakage" and so on.

    I agree with you that anything done under the Trump administration should raise eyebrows.

    But look at the context we are in

    "On Friday, the country confirmed 3309 new coronavirus deaths, smashing the previous record of 3206 recorded on Wednesday"

    In the next 90 days over 300,000 Americans are projected to lose their lives.

    Does this guy in the video think the vaccine will produce worse results? I'm ok with a few people getting a third testicle.

    I personally lament and think it is the looney bins that there is any kind of political element to this. The virus doesn't care who you vote for. Nor do I (in terms of Covid)

    I just want things to get better for everyone, and we gotta try. As I mentioned above, the amount of Mountain Dew in my blood stream means I should definitely be on the front lines
    of getting it.
    TD Gary and Martin Hoffmann like this.
  13. I grew up the son of a vascular surgeon - I can't imagine how sick I'd have had to be to impress my Dad enough to let me stay home from school, but since I was going anyway, my body seemed to get the message: We ain't got time for sick.

    In 48 years, I've rarely gotten sick, and when I do it's hours. I can't actually think of a multi-day illness. Never take vaccines, never take exceptional precautions against.. well, anything, really. Raising my boy has confirmed for me just how insanely we underestimate what we're capable of, and that includes adaptation and disease resistance.

    In a free country, sure, inject yourself with chemicals if you like.

    I won't be.
    TD Gary likes this.
  14. Well, Mike, you and your son have been extraordinarily lucky. Have you ever contracted polio? Smallpox? No? Then thank those around you who got vaccinated against these scourges of humanity.
  15. #15 Mike Verta, Dec 19, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2020
    False equivalency. (Draco caught it, by the way). Polio and smallpox are orders of magnitude more impactful. No vaccine is necessary for a disease with a 99.98% survival rate for healthy adults below age 70.

    But we're fans of freedom, and freedom is choice. We fully support people's right to be injected with whatever they'd like. Or wear masks, or stay inside, or hit themselves with ballpeen hammers or listen to One Direction or any of 1000 other suspect things people do.

    For context, I had Covid; all of our clan did. Annoying for a couple days, done. If that weak-ass disease is enough to take you out, you may be.. well not exactly on Nature's A-Team. So, yeah, sure, take it. In fact, take our doses if you want.
    TD Gary likes this.
  16. Mike, just curious; I haven't seen the 99.98% survival rate for healthy adults below 70. Do you remember where you read this statistic by any chance?
    TD Gary likes this.
  17. The CDC - Table 1, Infection Fatality Ratio


    The math's been done like 1000 ways, but if you're going to delve deeper, don't use Google. Use Duckduckgo at least.

    But the CDC has had, buried on all its pages since DAY 1, that Covid was overwhelmingly non-fatal for healthy adults. And among the dead, 94%+ had multiple comorbidities. If you're a healthy adult, there's a 99.x% chance you couldn't die from Covid IF YOU WERE TRYING TO.

    But, you know, a lot of people watch the news. And a lot of people believed "two weeks to flatten the curve," too. And even more people believe that wearing a mask "to protect others," at the expense of the other 99% who've had their businesses destroyed, unleashed an epidemic of suicide and depression, irreparably harmed children's socialization, education, and psychological health and bathed the entire society in an atmosphere of fear and paranoia makes them compassionate people.

    Your planet is so strange.
    TD Gary likes this.
  18. There are enough people that catch the virus and need hospitalization, filling up the hospitals as a result. Now, if you actually do catch something worse or you're victim of some kind of accident, you might risk not getting the care or attention you need if the hospital is overrun by covid patients.

    I dislike the notion that accepting or rejecting the idea of the coronavirus as a threat can only be black and white. Sure, not everything about the pandemic and how it was handled makes sense, at least here in Europe: the mass hysteria, shutting countries down at the drop of a hat, and even introducing curfews. I'm still baffled at the fact that they prohibited people to travel if their girlfriend conceived a child while the couple was apart, but they allowed people to travel freely for funerals; the lack of nuance in the rules put in place is at best laughable, they're incredibly lazy everywhere. How can you close every restaurant and bar without any distinction between the types of facilities or what they offer? The laws and the restrictions are incredibly lazy and I expect better from the governments around the world, especially 9 months in.

    However, I do believe that a good amount of restrictions is necessary; I think we can accept both the ideas that most of the healthy individuals survive the virus, and that the virus might cause a lot of indirect harm to a population if left uncontrolled. If we try to reach a herd immunity without putting up restrictions, then the amount of old people and people with comorbidities that would get sick would be too high for the hospital to take care of. A larger chunk of the population would just die. Another possibility would be to keep the weaker people inside and starting the world again for everyone else, trying to reach herd immunity another way. I don't know how sustainable that would be, since you'd be imprisoning weaker people in their own houses for an absurd amount of time, making it impossible for them to live normally for at least a year. For some countries this number is as high as 20%. I'd like to think that I live in a society where the country won't stop caring about me as a human being after I'm 65.

    Now, a vaccine is actually a good solution to the problem of the pandemic. If shown that it isn't harmful to people, it would give everyone an equal amount of protection from the virus, and would allow for society to be normal again. My hope is that most people would be willing to take such a vaccine.

    I'm sick and tired of this pandemic and I wanna get out of it as much as anybody else. No amount of "the virus isn't even that bad" will allow me to meet up with my friends, spend the holidays with my family, or travel to my long distance partner, whom I have been away from since April; the laws that are in place make at least some scientific sense, but regardless of what we think of them, they're not going away anytime soon. Talking about practicality, a vaccine to this virus would be a clean way to get out of this.

    It's a free world, but I personally still hope that enough people would get the vaccine so that we can finally close this sad historical chapter.
    TD Gary likes this.
  19. Mike, Thanks for the link to the CDC report. I see the age-specific fatality statistics that you mentioned. They look very low. But I am trying to reconcile these statistics with the number of reported cases and fatalities that are occurring now, in December, in the US. With about 200,000 new cases every day, and 3,000 deaths per day, that results in a 1.5% fatality rate. (And that does not include the number of survivors who have irreversible damage to their bodies.) Of course, these statistics include those who do and those who do not have co-morbidities. This seems to imply that the majority of Americans have comorbidities--which might actually be true--and many are not even aware of their issues.

    As you mentioned, the disastrous mental and educational consequences that resulted from lockdowns are horrendous. But--take a look at Sweden, which initially took a totally open approach, and now admits it was a mistake. And now, our midwest states are especially afflicted with the virus, where people looked to our leadership for advice and examples on mask-wearing and social distancing. A total business lockdown probably wasn't necessary if in its stead, a total mask-wearing and social distancing ethic had been instilled. By our so-called leaders.
    TD Gary likes this.
  20. The news is complete propaganda. Flat out lies. If we were talking about Ebola, which turns your fucking insides to liquid before it kills you, do you think in a million years you would feel safe standing next to a lesion-covered Ebola guy just because he had his dog's bandana pulled up over his face? Of course not. The idea is absolutely insane.

    The masks and the lockdowns don't withstand even the tiniest most casual amount of intellectual scrutiny.. everybody taking them off to eat, like Covid respects meal time and won't infect you on the airplane so long as you're having Cheetos.

    I have a home in Los Angeles and a home in Florida and I split my time about equally every month. It's like two different worlds. Los Angeles is an ignorant third world lockdown shit hole, and in Florida life is basically normal, only there's fewer sick people and fewer deaths.

    Literally everyone in my circle has gotten this thing, because it spreads like wildfire, and we're testing more for it which is why the cases go up, however don't forget that the testing is completely unreliable and you don't have to but scratch the surface to hear countless cases of false positives. Christ even in my immediate circle I know two people who got false positives and no fewer than four people who got a positive result in the mail even after they canceled the appointment and never ever even showed up. Don't get me started on the conflict of interest problem with incentivizing hospitals to put down Covid wherever possible because they literally get heaps of cash for it. So now you've got motorcycle accidents written as covid deaths, and people admitting that dying with covid will be marked as dying from covid.

    The covid reaction and the lockdowns has absolutely zero to do with science and medicine or a disease. Every single one of these would-be tyrants and their dogmatic illegal unconstitutional edicts has flat out admitted they're looking to use the entire thing as an opportunity to restructure society into the socialist utopia they've never read about in history books.

    Meanwhile my 96-year-old grandmother died alone in a hospital surrounded by strangers because we weren't allowed to see her. My wife's mother died in a hospital surrounded by strangers because people weren't allowed to see her. Except of course, for the people working in the hospitals, who have their fucking masks down every time somebody's not looking.

    There are 330 million people in this country. Knowing the number of deaths is laughably exaggerated, in fact purposely manipulated, divide that number by 330 million nonetheless. Assuming your calculator can display that many leading zeros, what you'll see is the greatest, most destructive transfer of wealth and theft of Americans basic rights and freedoms for the tiniest, most indefensibly small number of people.

    "Two weeks to flatten the curve." The only people who believed that for even a microsecond, thought any of this was about a disease, or public health, and who have apparently never read a history book.

    And, for the love of God and everything holy, never ever again for the rest of your life try to graft the dynamics of a tiny little Scandinavian nation with its homogenized population, and it's homogenized belief system, the size of one of our smaller states, onto the 330 million-dense macrocosm of the United States.

    In Sweden, it's like you have to feed 500 people. Whatever process you do, that process doesn't scale when it's time to feed 500,000. 500 people you can call a caterer. 500,000 you can't call the caterer. What works for a tiny little speck of a country doesn't scale. For countless reasons.

    Covid is not a pandemic. If not seized on opportunistically and blast it out by the propaganda machine 24 hours a day, we'd never have even known about it. We might have noticed a baddish flu going around this year. And meanwhile the unconscionable landscape of destruction and depression and isolation, and the single greatest transfer of wealth away from individuals to corporations would never have happened. And you and I wouldn't be having this stupid debate, which is so undebatable it isn't even fun.
    David Healey and TD Gary like this.

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