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1st and 2nd Violins (no necessity)

Discussion in 'Template Balancing' started by Manuel Cervera, Aug 1, 2019.

  1. In the minute 1:07 or so, Mike talks about the necessity (no necessity) to create separate patches for first and second violins (I deduce that the same for clarinets, flutes, etc.). All this, of course, if my English has allowed me to understand it well.
    My questions are:
    1. For example, in the score Also Sprach Zarathustra, there are first and second violins. All notes of both instruments must be played with the same patch?


    2. The same for the rest of the instruments? (I was wrong)


    3. We must not take into account the number of musicians in an orchestra, right? I mean: 16 first, 16 seconds, 12 violas, 10 cellos and 8 basses (Most of the libraries have 1st and 2nd)
    4. Balancing with a reference recording, we already get the right volume and mix levels, right?

    All these questions, just to confirm I am understanding.
    Thank you very much for your help.
  2. Mike, Alexander and others (people who make stellar VI mockups) have all said they don't notice a difference. It saves time and energy to group Vi 1 and 2, and divisi sections just need dynamics and volume tweaks. Number of players doesn't really matter because i.e. 3x notes on a 16 player patch sounds nothing like 48 players in real life. Unsure about other instrument families though.
    Manuel Cervera likes this.
  3. What I mean is, is it neccesary to create a 2nd Violin patch? Or it is enough to create only a 1st Violin one (who plays the notes of 1st and 2nd).
    Not just meaning to group all Violins and Violas in a Bus.
  4. Whats more important is to treat them individually in performance and dynamics. I could write here a long long post about all of that (but no time actually). In the end keep it simple: When you work with samples, don´t think with that attitude in terms of sizes, and do whatever sounds good to you. Do whatever serves you in terms of getting a more realistic performance. If 4 violin stacks do that job, do it. Don´t get confused by numbers and all that crap.
  5. That´s what I think.
    Alexander Schiborr likes this.
  6. Look guys, what ever sounds to you right, use it, don´t think to much over it. Layer sounds if you need more, thats my advice, detune them, use good references to know how things sound in reality. In the end: Nobody will ask you how many sampled violins, cellos, violas or trumpets or flutes you used. The end result is important that it has a convincing performance, balance and a unity of sound with punch and some balls. UNITY, DEPTH and EXPRESSION is what I always try to concentrate on, short example. My advice: Learn from reference and how your sampled orchestra needs to be treated in order to get life injected.

    I leave that short snippet here.

  7. I have a few legato violin instruments in my template because they have different textures. 8dio Anthology is more aggressive, Soaring Strings is a bit softer. I'll often use one for VI1 and the other for VI2 depending on what I want the character to be. So if I want it to be more aggressive I'll use 8dio for the top voice.

    I know that most people don't mix and match libraries like this but I like it and it doesn't sound as weird as you would think. I think using different sample sets avoids that "big organ" sound of layering the same room tone, recording chain, etc.and getting a buildup.

    The Strauss orchestration that puts VI1 and VI2 both in divisi playing the same notes, as opposed to VI1 playing the top and VI2 playing the bottom, is very subtle and wouldn't make sense in a mockup.

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