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Daybreak

Discussion in 'Critique & Feedback' started by Francesco Bortolussi, Nov 28, 2017.

  1. #1 Francesco Bortolussi, Nov 28, 2017
    Here I am posting another piece I composed for orchestra last week.

    I don't wanna spend too much time describing the piece with words, hopefully you guys will enjoy the listening (and please, pick my music apart! I could really use some harsh criticism :D ).

    I think it came out decently, and I was thinking about submitting it for the Unleashed class. Unless I find some time to compose something else from here to the end of December.

     
    Paul T McGraw and Sylvain Provenzano like this.
  2. #2 Patrick McClanahan, Nov 29, 2017
    Immediately I thought of this -
     
  3. #3 Francesco Bortolussi, Nov 29, 2017
    Ahah damn that’s too close! I’ve never listened to that soundtrack, and I’ve never heard of that movie, so I guess I got unlucky this time :p

    Oh well, shit happens.
     
  4. #4 Doug Gibson, Nov 29, 2017
    I've got good news, and some bad news for you.

    The good news is that it is a pretty quick fix to get your piece away from sounding like the Newton Howard piece.

    Two quick steps.
    1. Take your melody and invert it.
    2. Move your bass so it's not just a drone.

    For example





    The bad news:

    It takes way to long to reach the high point of the piece. For this piece, the gist of the Golden Mean (ratio) would be a good idea. I don't
    personally put a ton of significance on on it. It's more of a general idea for music IMO. In this case it would work better than what you have now.

    In case you don't know what I am talking about here is a link

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio
     
  5. #5 Francesco Bortolussi, Nov 29, 2017
    Thank you for taking the time to listen to it and to try to fix my unvoluntary plagiarism :) I appreciate the effort that you put in trying to help me change the intro motif, I'll quickly transcribe it and look for a solution! I think I also have a couple of ideas for it.

    This is very very useful feedback. It's funny because at the beginning I didn't even wanted to put the big climax, as it wasn't the initial aim of the piece at all. But I sort of developed into it and I just went for it. I wanted to see if I could develop only with a handful of WWs and harp (with the occasional celesta), without relying on my usual devices; so my objective was to have a pretty intimate sound, with the occasional string crescendo.

    Your criticism is perfectly valid though, and it's an interesting point of view that I didn't consider.

    So my question at this point is: without the final climax, would you feel like the piece is boring? Because if, in your ears, it's dragging for too long, it means that the journey is not as enjoyable as I thought it would be. Which also means that if I went for the first idea (of not having the big climax), maybe the piece would have completely failed.
    Maybe there is not enough drama in the first half :)

    Thanks again for the feedback! I immensely appreciate it!
     
  6. #6 Doug Gibson, Nov 29, 2017
    Well, I can't 100% answer this question. To my ears the piece sounds like film music, without a film. So if it was supporting a dramatic narrative, or some kind of montage etc..... I can imagine it working.

    If you are asking as a stand alone concert piece..... not so successful. Why ? For me; their is a lack of variety. Just have a look at the soundcloud sound wave from about 45 seconds until 2:40. You can almost draw a straight line across it. So the parameters are pretty narrow. The lows aren't that low, the highs not that high.

    For a concert piece - (which is what I am calling a piece not supporting a visual narrative, which our sole attention is to focus on the music)
    it is critical how it "unfolds over the duration of time". Musical form is not just about 8 measures here, or modulation there. It's also about Memory and expectation. Great composers play with this, manipulate us in fun and surprising ways etc.

    I don't want to come off too negative. I really like the vibe. You know what I would advise....... study some of Mozart's slow movements.
    Check out these two. Clarinet Concerto, and Piano concerto in A major #23. I'll link a video below.

    OK,.... it's "classical" and has that kind of musical vocabulary. But that's not the point. It's about how to maintain interest with slow movement for long durations of time. Not an easy thing to do. He is a great dramatist. The scheme he uses can hold a more modern harmonic vocabulary very well.




    Oh..... don't know if this is of any use, but here is the piano version of what I put up. Just flipped your them and moved it. You had D up to Eb, So I inverted and began on Bb. I added in a repetition of the first note, simply to move away from the newton, and I liked it.

    Screen Shot 2017-11-29 at 8.13.36 AM.png
     
  7. #7 Francesco Bortolussi, Nov 29, 2017
    Yes! And, as nice as this sounds, it is definitely a weakness of the piece (the fact that it doesn't stand on its own) :)

    That is a great point, I can see the flatness of the drama. Definitely a bigger dynamic range would have helped, even with the same kind of development

    No don't worry about that, I cherish honesty and this is the best kind of feedback I could have received. Every comment was very constructive :D

    I'll definitely do it!!

    And also thanks for the transcription, I guess what I meant was to put it under my fingers on the piano (which is actually the only time I can understand what's going on harmonically).

    Again, thank you so much for taking the time it. I really appreciate it
     
  8. #8 Patrick McClanahan, Nov 29, 2017
    I've unknowingly quoted stuff a few times so I just wanted to point out what I noticed here. Good luck with the piece and the constructive critique offered above. ☺
     
    Francesco Bortolussi likes this.
  9. #9 Doug Gibson, Nov 29, 2017
    No problem. You understand the concept ... right ?

    You had something like this.

    Screen Shot 2017-11-29 at 6.32.22 PM.png

    Basically G minor, that has minor 2nds and leaps. So I just flipped your theme and placed them where minor 2nds occur in G min.

    Then for the bass, even though you add things on top, it never moves from G. Thus it also recall the other score as it has a drone.
    Often people hear the two outer voice as the primary focal points. And contour.
     
  10. #10 Francesco Bortolussi, Nov 30, 2017
    Yeah I do understand it. I'll probably try to come up with my own variation when I have time.
    "Copying" JNH didn't worry me as much as the other issues: the former is an easy and painless fix, the latter (developing drama etc.) is a much more difficult thing to improve on and study :D

    But I do appreciate the effort that you put on helping me :)
     
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