The Question: How to achieve a writer's proficiency at piano?

Yeah, I have heard of this technique before, I will try it on practicing arpeggios and see if it has much of a positive impact.

 

I think - and this is just my opinion; I mean, I'm not saying that it's true in all cases or that I speak for everyone - and I totally understand that your experience may be different, and no less valid or important than mine; and I don't want to offend anybody or be insensitive to their individual circumstances or feelings. Obviously, we all come from different backgrounds and have different life experiences, and we don't all have access to the same privileges or resources, and we all have different challenges to face, which needs to be understood and respected. And I'm not saying this to be rude or suggest that I'm superior in any way or that by posting it I'm somehow smarter than anybody or an authority on it, it's just my opinion.

 

I dont know if fixed solfege is really particularly important advice...

Sounds like if you went to a school that uses it, you learn it. If not, the pros and cons are minor - And there are worse habits you could spend that same energy cracking down on.

When I think melodically, I think in solfege - And when I write in Ab minor I don't want to think "le". Perfect pitch is perfectly achievable without fixed Do, and unless you're a performing singer then it's arguably even less important.

Not saying there aren't benefits learning it fixed, just don't know if taking a hard left at 41 years old is going to do anything other than waste his energy he could spend on almost any other facet of composition.

The lessons thing is spot on though... I don't take lessons because of priorities, but I can tell you based on every instrument i pick up, without outside forces, you eventually move to the same patterns and become rigid in them.

Practicing things you're comfortable with won't get you far in any instrument, which is why self guided practicing just kind of hurts you in the long run.

But hey man, music doesn't have to be hard to be good.

 

And just to add to the fixed solfege - interval training fills any gaps left by not using fixed, so it's not like I have an issue with chromaticism or non chord tones, or borrowed, ect.

And I write lots of dark stuff that rarely stays anywhere close to natural minor - couldn't write in major to safe my life - But I use all kinds of nasty intervals when using a pretty strict combination of minor, diminished, and an occasional augmented.

 

I don't think legitimate perfect pitch is developed as an adult (though relative pitch certainly is), but I digress.

I think the second last sentence is why lessons can be invaluable -- I can quickly spot when I've become stuck in a rut on guitar and need to work on something new or challenging. Not sure I would have had I been entirely self taught.


Great posts guys, this is exactly the motivation I need. I keep skirting around my lack of piano chops but I really think improving them will go miles.

 

Respectfully, I completely disagree. I will say that in reviewing my post, I could revise or add in just a general "sing,sing,sing". This can just be "la" or whatever you want. Being able to play one part with one hand and sing the other is very useful too.

I don't really want to post all the reasons why I disagree with your well intentioned comment, as I fear we will get way off topic.

All the perfect pitch musicians I know had it from a young age and they can't really explain it other than just know a D when they hear it. Same with those who see colors or have a taste in their mouth with certain pitches too.

I do agree with Mike V in that if you only did one form of "ear training" make it transcription so you can learn music like a language.
If the poster, at 41 years of age is having trouble distinguishing intervals, all the more reason to solfegge.

Avoid like the plague any "this song is this interval" stuff. It's a long winded topic but there is a very good and clear reason why all the best conservatories use Fixed Doh. Juilliard did, and does. Moscow, Paris etc do too.

For the Moveable Doh aspects don't use vowels. Use numbers. It makes no sense to say Sol when you mean scale degree 5. We use numbers for distances. All intervals are distances from one pitch to another. Use a system of 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11. This is very much like figured bass. This is also why Jazz progressions are great for learning harmony on the keyboard. Even if using the 2-5-1 or 3-6-2-5-1 the numbers convey a much more logical way of thinking than "Rey,Sol, Fa"

I am already digressing. To keep it simple Transcribe, and sing what you play regardless of vowel. Solfeggi does provide great benefits, but we should open another topic for this.


Best wishes

 

well there are minor reasons that it's the "best" way for a life long career musician. I just don't think the energy wouldn't be better spent somewhere else. Even something grody like harmonic dictation is painful but I'd rather budget my time using movable solfege and squeeze in more dictation exercises.

it's literally all the same... in the end - we want the easiest transfer from what we hear in our heads - to something coming out of speakers(or into someones ears) And we can disagree on the language we use to familiarize ourselves with these notes - but you, I, and others in this thread are telling you to sing! It's invaluable for part writing. Pick the language you want to sing it in(I don't care if you sing the names of the notes outloud)

it seems odd, but solfege helps you think musically both melodically - and where you are harmonically... I know if I want to land on a secondary dominant chord I need to part write to get my re, fi, la voiced the way I'd like. I'll also know when I'm writing a melody that lands on "re" that my choices of chords are II, ii, iio v III7 bvii ect ect ect.

it's a way to make you more "fluent" in the language of music. To help you think musically - and also thinking this way keeps you CONSTANTLY aware of your place in relation to both the tonal center and the chord/harmonies surrounding it. There is no thinking "what is F# minor in the Key of E major?" every 2 seconds when it becomes second nature... thinks like solfege help it become second nature quickly.

 

This troubles me. We are suggesting that you adopt this as a primary skill for 2 reasons -

1.) It's the fastest way to make music 2nd nature to you... It's not muscle memory that makes a C# Sus4 in 2nd inversion something effortlessly identified - It's learning to think in it's native tongue... solfege helps speed up the process of learning to think in the musical language first, before you can even verbalize what you're thinking in English. Solfege helps you to think musically all of the time, even when you're not practicing on a piano - you're automatically converting jingles on TV into music without having to think about specific notes.

And number 2. 3 hands are better than 2. Composing both melody and harmony, or melody and counter melody at the same time makes the process much easier. This will help you overcome some limitations as a pianist simply by using your voice. As a result, you're more likely to make melodies that might not naturally be easy to play, causing you to expand your motor pattern repitoire

 

Which word you choose doesn't matter much, just trying to say that it might not make sense - But thinking in solfege more on any instrument reaaallly helps break down the wall between you and raw musical thinking.

It's kind of like trying to improve your bench with bent over rows.... If youre a complete nubbard you probably think it sounds silly...

But if you're trying to push from sand you'll never use anything properly... so building a thick back as well as stronger lats to keep your shoulder gurgle strapped down with ease - you'll have a rock solid foundation and your bench will skyrocket.

I guess what we are trying to say - is that I might use snatch grip deadlifts- the other dude might do bent overs, the other might do lat pulldowns- slightly different, but all lead to a bigger bench.

Solfege is your lats, so spread those meat wings and fly like Ronny Coleman on coke

 

LIGHT WEIGHT BAYBEEEEEE

YEAAAAAHHHH BUUDDAAAYYYYYY

I figured I'd try to give you an analogy that would click. It's such an odd thing to describe - because it doesn't seem like it does what it does on the surface. But its similar to when you first start some form of ear training - you hear music completely differently... in a few months time - nearly all of the music I had listened to sounded completely different, and I heard way more than I ever heard - and as a result, some bands I liked I couldn't stand anymore; and some bands I thought were okay I gained a ton of appreciation for... And then when you explain to another friend that music sounds different to you now - they think you're nuts, until they get into music and then come to the same conclusion. And it's such a hard thing to describe with words - but basically - I think about raw musical ideas, then have to translate them to the English language. It wasn't always like that - but something about attacking it from multiple sides breaks you away from thinking purely in solfege OR imagining an invisible piano/frets/ect. I think of chords more in the piano sense, and melody more in the solfege sense - but it's definitely opened pathways and allowed me to transfer my ideas directly to paper/keyboard/ect. Especially when part writing - having more of a solfege paradigm while playing melodic lines on the keyboard makes so much sense.

that said, I let wild iguanas take over my cage in the garage, and its a billion degrees outside so I haven't been hitting the sledge... I dropped about 20 lbs, then gained 10 back in pure fat. I'm a lazy PoS right now, and literally no excuse for it - other than being broke in the short term to cure my musical GAS - taxes, and not wanting to lift when I eat on 2-4$ a day. Was never swoldermort or anything - but I was very much like you, When I do it - I want to maximize what I'm doing for what I want out of it. And for me - I felt like I grew 12 sets of reproductive organs everytime I 1RM'd deadlifts. Don't care if I'm chunky - just the rush of feeling like a damn barbarian during OHP made me feel better. That and watching Spartacus just makes you need lats. I'm pretty sure crixus could outswim a shark with his lat-fins.

 

I don't think solfege is off topic here. I'd love it expanded upon.

Of course I learned the very basics in choir practice in elementary school, but could anyone elaborate as to how and why to learn fixed solfege, and how to employ it? Movable solfege doesn't make much sense to me -- intervals and scale degrees make more sense here.

PS -- CNS intensive lifts are always fun . I always hated 10-rep phases but testing my 3RM for pullups and RFESS ("Bulgarian" split squats) was always a blast.

 

I can probably squat around 275, but last time I lifted I focused on fixing my terrible hip mobility until I could go ATG. or atleast until hams meet calves. So mostly only doing rep work to catch small muscles up - without risking injury, as I have a very important job. I'm literally the only person who works with a man with cerebral palsy, he's around 175(I helped him lose some weight, but getting forced fed by mom + flexing your whole body 24/7 makes him dense) - spastic and non verbal.

Good workers are hard to find, and the pay isn't nearly worth tolerating his mom - so the handful of (generally men) who can even lift him day to day without ending up in a back brace either quit or get fired. That said, I've been working with him 7 days a week for a good while now, for the bulk of 3 years - and there is literally no one else in his life that can help him - so whenever I pull an erector, I have to still deadlift the dude, and then hold him with 1 arm - and it's utterly brutal as well as dangerous. Which is exactly why I got into deadlifts! When I found out I was going to be working with him, I looked up how to get a stronger core/posterior to protect my spine, as well as safety due to his spastic limbs. For instance, at any moment going through a door way he can fling one of his arms out and grab the door way(or commonly grab the shower hose) and I'll have to not lose balance while My spine is under load(He's fully in the air) as well as be able to hold him against me with 1 arm, while prying it out of his hand with my left arm.

I love the dude to death, but there is a reason they've gone through helpers like toitlet paper. And that said, if I mess something up - he can't just live his life on the floor or stuck in his chair... so I'm kind of a better safe than sorry lifter - who's only goal is strength(muscle is w/e) And I couldn't possibly be happier with exploring that. As a result, I love deadlifts, followed by ohp, followed by farmer walks, followed by sledge hammer + tire. It's insaaannne how much better those can make me feel - in a world full of ridiculous amounts of stress.

but I'm happy to say next time I get off my butt and get lifting(hopefully this fall) I'll be able to start working on my squat. And even though I haven't been lifting for the entire year so far(his mother had a huge medical crisis and I was taking care of him 24/7 for months) I went into the garage with a friend(he brought me lifting up with his friends and they didn't believe I could lift what he said I could) Pleasantly surprised my maxes didn't go down much - 195x1 bench, 375x1 traditional DL. might have been able to go a little harder on DL, but I don't even use chalk let alone straps or anything - so when my grip strength turns to doodoo butter even gripping the bar sucks(I used mixed for heavy DLs, never got into hook grip) - but my grip was slipping and my form went to trash(but I stayed pretty solid for my 365)


Irrelevant text shrunk for the sake of less off topic spam.

Well by fixed solfege, he means that C=Do, no matter what. I made a quick little diagram to showcase the difference - enjoy my paint skillz. That said, one of the major benefits IMO of fixed solfege is that you're always thinking in concert pitch, which makes Keeping track of transposition a little easier. It's also useful for being more fluid with your melodies slipping in and out of relative/parallel minor/major/modes if you tend to adhere too easily to a single tonal center, this can help you break that sort of thinking.

the top example is movable solfege, the bottom is fixed. It's in the key of D minor, so with movable D = la, with fixed D= re

 

Discipline Gibson.....Discipline. That is a serious topic, and a very noble job. Must not defile Redbanned with crude jokes.
(picture Dr. Stangelove trying to fight hand)

 

I think - and this is just my opinion; I mean, I'm not saying that it's true in all cases or that I speak for everyone - and I totally understand that your experience may be different, and no less valid or important than mine; and I don't want to offend anybody or be insensitive to their individual circumstances or feelings. Obviously, we all come from different backgrounds and have different life experiences, and we don't all have access to the same privileges or resources, and we all have different challenges to face, which needs to be understood and respected. And I'm not saying this to be rude or suggest that I'm superior in any way or that by posting it I'm somehow smarter than anybody or an authority on it, it's just my opinion.

 

ohh trust me, I see the benefit of thinking in concert pitch purely from a modulation/tonality greaser...

Initially in composition I became rigid tonally... which was in stark contrast to my first steps as a musician right before that(picking up the guitar my dad bought and never used) and ironically - I ended up using that until I was more comfortable with navigating a piano. Mainly because I had the freedom of uniformity from frets... so I could play a melodic sequence and then move it anywhere chromatically EASIER than staying diatonically - simply due to the uniformity of frets on a visual level.

and playing minor chords on the keyboard all the time(because ya know.. metal) I rarely ever had the benefit of staying diatonic. That said - thinking in concert pitch is 100% easier for me when I have chord progressions that are F min, A minor, Ab minor, G augmented.

this is a melody from one of my songs - and writing a key signature would be a complete waste of ink.

to answer your question though, my brain automatically moves la/do with my implied tonal "vacations". so I'll start thinking "do-mi-la" but shift la to "do" and go down to "ti la ti do mi fa mi-" in B minor then down a halfstep to mi do la in Bb minor. It's not exactly how I'm thinking - because I'm still half thinking in the chords and half thinking melodically - and that really changes based on if its a strongly arpeggiated based melody or if it's more of a linear based melody. So something that jumps in intervals of a 3rd or more MOST of the time I think more of it's place in the chord, but it's mostly 2nds/3rds I'm thinking more solfege.

 

Interesting thoughts on fixed-do. I can see how it makes singing solfege "easier" for music that is atonal or has a lot of modulations, but this music is going to be more difficult no matter which method you use. The problem I see with fixed-do is that it has no system of recognizing how a pitch relates to the tonic (relative vs. absolute). With fixed-do, you might as well be singing "A B C D E F G" because you are simply replacing note names with solfege syllables. Singing solfege for F# major in fixed-do seems confusing and counter-productive to me. It is important, especially with composing and transcribing, to be able to quickly recognize intervals/find pitches in relation to the tonic. Sure, you'll find complications with syllables when music modulates, but I would argue that this only forces you to better understand the music by analyzing and deciding where the music modulates and when to switch your reference "do". Ideally one should understand and use both systems, but fixed-do seems better suited for atonal music while movable-do has more benefits for tonal, even largely chromatic music.