Transcribing Guitar Parts

Hi folks,

So Mike has discussed transcription rather extensively elsewhere when it comes to orchestral instruments.

When it comes to transcribing guitar parts, or band music, however (think progressive rock or the like) -- how does one go about transcribing guitar parts?
I'm reluctant to traditionally notate it, because not a single one of the bands I'm transcribing read music for guitar in this manner, nor do they write in a way that I'm convinced would be useful in notated format. Up to this point I usually just learn the parts.

Does anyone here do tabs instead for guitar? The downside of this is that tabs tell one "how" to play a part, not really "what" is being played. I realize the shortcomings of tabs in this regard, but the fact that they seem to be (aside from a few circles) often the predominant way of learning new guitar parts, I wonder if it's at all helpful to transcribe in this manner.

 

Yeah that seems to be the case. I find hotkeys for Musescore to be way faster than pencil and paper, but tabbing feels tedious for some reason.

I suppose that's a good point -- if one is actually learning it by ear and can play it then reading it via tab likely isn't detrimental.

My main question was whether or not tabs are as useful as notation transcription, the point being to get music in one's head and study it as well as learn it -- internalizing it as much as possible. I suspect tabs aren't quite as useful, but I wonder if writing tabs and allowing i.e. Guitar Pro to translate it to notation is helpful, especially if one is including bass, keys, etc in the "score".

PS -- That solo sounds tricky to transcribe. Although I do find acoustic/classical guitar parts to be a hell of a lot easier to transcribe than distorted guitar. Certain parts I've transcribed, especially when there are two guitars playing strange chord voicings plus an acoustic guitar strumming underneath still give me a hell of a time. I'm baffled at how inaccurate guitar tabs tend to be when perusing the free stuff online.

 

Good point. I'm fairly well versed on electric guitar technique so that's not as much a factor as simply trying to internalize all the parts I learn and how to voice them.

While I can sort of approximate or calculate the notes on the neck I don't know it like I know a piano. I'm not sure why I never got around to that, likely because such a vast array of extremely proficient guitarists in the metal world don't really think that way as much as they do in patterns, scales, intervals, etc.

Notation will likely help with internalizing it anyway.

I'm not sure I agree re: using them. A lot of intermediate guitarists I know have terrible ears for transcribing/learning parts because they rely so heavily on tabs. They're also often in the dark about nuances and expressions. Not all mind you, there are tabs going back to the middle ages; ears are certainly important though and you're right in that I doubt transcribing to tabs would be harmful at all.

 

Sorry for the belated reply, seems hit or miss whether or not I get notifications (or remember them).

I can't not focus on fingerings to be honest, but I'm with you on tabs. It's more for reference sake or for transcribing, but I think even getting them under one's fingers and figuring out what's going on is beneficial. And definitely -- most guitar players I know or have come across don't read traditional notation for guitar but are amazing players by ear.

Good point. This is purely a "creation" topic. I can't even remember the last time I relied on tabs (or trusted one online for that matter).

Good point on rhythm, I should start writing that out.

The goal is indeed for composition. I wonder, though -- if it's for a melody, it's easy enough to figure out (even switching to piano tends to be easy), and for chords I can figure out what the chord and extensions are but I don't instinctively know the keys on the fretboard like I do with a piano (apparently this is not an uncommon thing -- as much as many prog players know their chords, I can name just one player I know that actually has every note memorized to the point of immediate recall). I think what I normally do is figure out the chord and extensions (positioning) and then determine what the chord is -- not necessarily knowing every note off the top of my head, but knowing that X particular D maj/min7 is D, 5th, m7th, m3rd, etc.
I'm not closed off to learning the fretboard that well, but it's been really interesting to see how many adept players I've come across that don't know the notes instinctively (or those who do changing tunings purely so that they don't know all the notes immediately). Is the aforementioned good enough, in your estimation?

 

Good point. I think from a more broad-perspective composer's point of view it's important to boil it down into general music language, or at least figure it out on piano (on which I know the notes and intervals passively). Though to answer the question directly, at least 2 of the ones I'm thinking of. One is conservatory-trained and this is a deliberate choice for him. He's no amateur either in the metal world.

You guitar doesn't? I thought we were talking about keytars. (Thanks for catching that)

Interesting. I would most certainly assume so for lead players, or for jazz players, session players, etc. But oddly, almost every guitar player I'm largely influenced by that writes the music for their band is embarrassed about the fact that they know little to no theory (in a declarative way) and often don't know what the specific chords are that they're playing, nevermind specific notes on specific strings. I do wonder if it goes back to what Mike says about internalizing and learning parts, licks, etc and being able to develop melody before knowing theory. These guys also have a profound sense of melody and harmony relative to their genre.
So for general composition, or for something like classical guitar playing -- I can see why.
But for internalizing parts in order to write guitar parts better (not for "compositional" purposes but for songwriting in a band setting) -- is it necessary? That's not rhetorical, it's something I'm legitimately baffled by. There seems to be a very different deliberate approach by a lot of players in the progressive/metal world. Many know their guitars very well, but a significant number of others that have adept songwriting skills (not 1-4-5 progressions I'm talking about here) seem to know it only intuitively.

This was from a fairly well-known guitar player in the metal world who also does jazz guitar in NYC. It's not the first time I've heard it either.

 

I'm somewhat familiar with open and alternate tunings, but in this case he would deliberately tune strings random steps down or up purely to see what would come out if he messed around. I'm sure he intuitively understood what it would do to chord shapes and the like.

Just as a caveat, while they will inevitably intertwine, I do play/pursue guitar in a separate context from my desire to do media work/orchestral music. I'm at a point where I'm wondering how to cross them, however, and if applying skills from one to the other would be particularly beneficial. If I'm transcribing a band piece in order to see what they're doing with harmony and structure and the like I do tend to notate it. It's simply peculiar to me that this (the lack of immediate fretboard knowledge in terms of notes) seems so commonplace in a good deal of the music I listen to. Troy Grady, who's been working for years on a mechanics series and was interviewing well-known players about their improvising strategies, noted the same thing, in contrast to piano playing. It's not something I'm decided on, but something I'm trying to figure out (I've been "accidentally" learning notes anyways, it's sort of hard not to).
I should say I highly doubt the aforementioned players are ignorant of the fretboard -- many can obviously distinguish between extensions, chord qualities, voicings, etc. It's more the having it "down cold" that not a ton seem to have, at least in genre I'm speaking of, and many of them are absolute monsters on guitar.
While I haven't been happy with my results at many points (I think largely due to the fact that I approached playing from a technical standpoint, learning to [attempt to] perfect solos and lead lines before writing songs or learning progressions), I've found learning a wider array of content seems to be helping. Certainly transcribing in general does.