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Template Balance - Mockup

Discussion in 'Tips, Tricks & Talk' started by Carlos Riesco, May 3, 2021.

  1. Hi everyone, I've upgraded my pc so I'm building a new template and I wonder if I can get any kind of feedback about this mockup I made.
    My main goals are: Have a good balance between sections; have them well placed in space, and to feel they are in the same room.
    So far I'm quite happy with the result on its own, but when I compare it with the recording I know there is still a lot to improve, and I want to take it to the next level, I just don't know what else to do. I will appreciate any comments. Thanks!

    This is the mockup:


    And this is the reference:
     
  2. #2 Tom Welsh, May 29, 2021
    Last edited: May 29, 2021
    What libraries are you using? I think all things you'd want to improve, can't be. I.e the instruments sounding articulate, and actually giving the impression of musicians in the same room, playing together under the supervision of a conducter all with goal of producing the best rendition of that specific piece of music... Sigh. I'm sorry I just had to release some frustration as a result of having to wrestle with orchestral samples myself recently. Have you ever listened on YouTube to old recordings of Toscanini in rehearsal where you can hear him yelling like a maniac at the orchestra and telling them they're not even musicians because their phrasings are slightly off or whatever? That's usually me when I'm trying to corral samples. No matter how many samples get recorded for a library or how many articulations are available, the truth is it's not how MUSIC is created by an orchestra or any live musician / ensemble (remember those?) and so no set of samples or individually layered virtual instruments will ever sound truly MUSICAL. I.e, In the live / original version you posted, you can clearly hear every member of the string section and brass actually playing the PIECE, as a unit - they are aware of the piece, they understand the piece and they are also aware of each other but they are NOT simply reproducing articulations + note value + dynamic values in time to the conductor. You can hear everyone has a GROOVE, they are playing in the pocket, even. Urgh, I hate samples hahaha (can you tell)?

    Anyway, more importantly, nice job on the mockup. Balance seems to be pretty good. Was there any file compression that occurred during the journey from your DAW to where you uploaded it? It has a kind of dynamic flatness to the sound - seems to be not full-ranged - missing the highs? That's just an audio fidelity observation, really. Musically all seems to be pretty accurate to the oriignal. I'd also say your mockup becomes more convincing towards the end when trumpets take centre stage and that might be because the articulations availble suit quite well the articulations that are required for that particular passage.

    So just ignore the stuff that's completely out of hands and maybe try and upload a better / higher res version. Apart from that it's all pretty good, I'd say.
     
  3. Hey Tom, thanks for your feedback, and don't worry, I share your frustration with orchestral samples as well.
    Libraries are Berlin Woodwinds, CSB, and CSS with Chamber Strings.

    Not really, I just uploaded the wav file to google drive (unless google is compressing it and I didn't know). And inside the daw there is only 1 compressor on the master bus, but it's compressing no more than 2 db in the loudest sections.

    I'm not sure I understand this correctly, are you saying the sound is lacking information in the high-end? Maybe there is too much lows/mids?
     
  4. Ah, I'm currently in the process of transitioning to Chamber Strings (Spitfire?) which I'll be using along with Aaron Ventre Brass and Woodwinds. At the moment I have EastWest Hollywood Orchestra but my composer cloud membership is ending next month so I'm having to start the grueling process of creating another template, basically from scratch. Once I'm finished I'll probably upload a benchmarking mockup like yourself...

    I honestly don't know very much about Google Drive - I wouldn't be surprised if it's compressing / reducing fidelity somehow - That's just the impression I get from listening. Yes, to me it sounds like high end information is missing. To your ears, how does the uploaded version sound compared to the original in your DAW?
     
  5. Yes, Spitfire. I'm still learning how to get the most out of them.

    I'm not hearing any difference, so I'm thinking maybe it's a mixing issue. Comparing to the original do you feel this happens during the whole track or just in some sections or in some instruments?
     
  6. Sure, it could be a mixing / balancing issue or the result of different overlaping reverbs, that kind of thing. Are you using any tape emulation, filters, EQ, limiting etc. in addition to the compressor? It also might be that the mockup requires more dynamics in the performance side of things too which will allow more clarity and seperation between instruments. Of course, this is easier said than done (as I may refer back to my inital rant).
     
  7. I used EQ in every track, mostly for cuts in the mids and low mids range. and tape emulation in groups buses. Limiter only for increase volume in the master bus, but is not peaking.
    Yesterday I realize 2 things, for the initial ostinato in the woodwinds legato patch works better that the staccato patch that I was using, and the ER's were cutting some high end freq's (I assume that's normal, but maybe is not benefiting the global sound). So I'm thinking I will go over track by track looking for this kind of issues. Thanks for sharing your thoughts Tom.
     

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