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Victorian Post Mortem Overture No.1 in C-Major

Discussion in 'Critique & Feedback' started by Alexander Schiborr, Sep 8, 2019.

  1. If nothing works out regarding the score creation. I am going to organize my midi template and render it out as midi for you guys here. So you can look up what I did. I don´t know though if there is any interest with that, but I am always open to help our fellowship here.
  2. Well, what I was going to write in regards to this was to say: (@Thomas Bryla, I was wondering if you found what I am writing below accurate based on your general experience)

    You have really two main options.
    1. Hire an orchestra and do a studio recording. This does not have to be YOU personally paying, You can do like a number of composers (like Mike, or myself for my bass clarinet concerto.) and just hire the orchestra and get the recording. Or it can be a library or music publisher (like some of the pieces I have posted. My publisher paid for the session) etc. Either way, someone is hiring the orchestra for a studio recording.

    This is the most straight forward way I have to say. Many of the businesses run "add-on" services like music prep etc, and really just do some research of who has a good reputation and reach an agreement on money and time needed.

    2. Approach an orchestra for a live performance at a concert: Here your personal connections and relationships are what make the difference. This has the widest, and some uncontrollable, variables. The good news - in theory - is your music would be deemed worthy of the orchestra to play in concert so there is no out of pocket cost to you. The range can be from professional to community/amateur. I have had some wonderful music-making experiences
    with amateur groups. Just don't expect it to sound like a studio recording

    ** Lastly, I have been an orchestrator on a few scores where the composer had a negative experience (I personally have not had this as a composer- but heard first hand the upset) of going into "unknown" lands. Red-tape micro BS of individuals wanting bribes. Just a heads up.
  3. Hey!

    I would totally be up for a barter/trade! As long as it can be "When the fuck I get around to it" I would be more than happy to exchange creating your sheet music if you would do a polished mock-up of one of my pieces. Of course, it would be "When the fuck you get around to it". Nothing time sensitive,

    But, yeah.... I would be down for that.

    Oh..... and I'm changing the first note of your piece ;)

    Just kidding. I would not really do that.

    None of my pleadings has moved you in the least huh? Such is life.
    Alexander Schiborr likes this.
  4. Here you go. Just sit back and relax

  5. Thats awesome, I vape and drink some beers later. I have really problems to relax. Always when I do I feel lazy. I simply can´t. Today I was doing the notes for my meeting at 6:30 in the morning, then I did some other stuff, now back and I am going to work more on the overture.

    Will reply later to your other notes, mate.
  6. #66 Alexander Schiborr, Sep 22, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2019
    Sounds great. Lets do that.:cool:
  7. The art is to feel lazy and really enjoy it. No beer or sleep or plans, just a lazy time alone. Like a cat. It‘s a natural and healthy status for brain and body and generates the best ideas.
  8. So true! Reminds me of this (I've probably linked it here before):

    @Alexander Schiborr

    Just checked out your new Master Deceiver teaser:

    Very cool! There was one place though at 1:01 where I thought the lead guitar clashes too much with the vocals.

    Good job on the vocals by the way! How many tracks did you record to double these?
    Alexander Schiborr likes this.
  9. Hej mate,

    I recorded one for the main vocals and sometimes I recorded a second layer for specific chorus lines also a backing. Specifically that sections there are a bit mixed, but the main vocal line is foremost what you hear. It took me quite some work to get back into that shouting and acting shape or however someone might call it. I think a lot comes to performance and how you transport the words and message, my wife actually helped me quite a lot with that. I think that this is the most crucial aspect: Performance. I will check the solo background. Though it is intended to be a bit buried there. If you bring that up which I could do the harmony and melange would break in the way how I want it there tbh with you. Anyways..I have one more song to record until the album is finished and then I have to find distribution channels, break my head over the artwork and so many other things too.
    Martin Hoffmann likes this.
  10. It's your call! The thing that's slightly bothering me might be the exact effect you were going for. I wasn't thinking about changing balance, I was thinking about moving the elements around a little so that the lead guitar and vocals no longer overlap.

    Oh wow, I thought that stuff must have been doubled to hell and back. Excellent work then!

    Do you have anything specific in mind already or examples of artworks that go in the direction that you want?
  11. #71 Martin Hoffmann, Sep 30, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2019

    @Doug Gibson: When I read this post of yours 2 weeks ago I wasn't quite sure if I understand it, but I had a strong hunch that you really are on to something here and that there is a lot to learn for me here. It was like you planted a seed in my mind, and I came back to the example clip that you posted a couple of times to listen back to it and see if I'm starting to "get it". I have a hard time hearing small rythmic differences, but I've kept my ears open and listened for examples of this in music that I hear and I think the pieces are slowly falling into place. Maybe you can confirm/correct me on whether I picked a good example with the following:

    @Alexander Schiborr posted an "epic" track that he made as a joke here:
    And I complained about a couple of things and posted "Quit being cute" from the Bulletstorm soundtrack as a counter example.

    @Doug Gibson: Please listen to the first 18 seconds (I think that's all that you'll need to answer this) of "The Rise of the Angry Douchebags" and the first 18 seconds of "Quit being cute", and tell me if - all mix/production concerns aside - I'm basically irritated by the same kind of (edit: lack of) "staggered voices" / "rythmic counterpoint" that you were referring to in your post? I have a hunch it is something similar, but I'm just so bad at hearing these kinds of differences, I'm more comfortable with giving feedback on the mix aspect.

    @Alexander Schiborr: If Doug agrees and I'm talking about something similar to his criticism, then please take this as an example for what I meant when I said in the other thread: "I want you to keep an open mind that maybe, just maybe, even in the worst kinds of genres there are tiny bits of knowledge and craft that can be extracted and used for higher purposes.". But if Doug says "That's not what I meant, your example is bad and you should feel bad!" forget all I said and I'll bow my head in shame :D.
  12. So, I did a break for a couple of days from that thread here and tied up a bit the programming as far I could, still some pieces of music simply shine a lot more when performed by real musicians + having a great conductor, also a better orchestrator than I am, however.. When writing most of the time in lower dynamics samples have not the expression I want to have, but I tried to make an effort here. Aaron did a master, thanks mate. The very first versions were all a bit more drenched in reverb which I finally removed and used a slight drier configuration with more focus on spot and close mics which sounds not that "big" but you know in the end it doesnt matter and I wanted that you can hear every little shit in the orchestration.

    Now in retrospective I would do probably some things different, probably tighten up the whole lets say 4 minutes and do probably even lots more of development which is always when you look back to something that you think: Oh well you could have gone a lot farer out and explore that with this and that technique and make it more interesting. Yes, I know that. So before posting like something new, I will take a break and go back to my sketch writing and studies again and grab and inhale also many ideas what Doug and Dillon gave during the process of creating that piece. My biggest thoughts were that "on the nose" thing and "please more counterpoint" and "moving focus points around".

    I hope you still enjoy the effort and the process of seeing how I battled myself through that 13 minute symphonic suite. I also thank you guys for checking my shit out over and over again as I really appreciate our place here where we all seeking for the same vibe and working on our basics learning to improve our writing and orchestration.

    Also I try as good as I can helping others and simply do post your music here regardless if you think it is good or not. It really doesn´t matter. Thats the only way how it works and how we set us apart lets say from consumerism madness buying bullshit library talks. Also you learn by switching gears and getting input from others. Also don´t forget to keep studying music, do it on a regular schedule and don´t be lazy. When I simply look back at many of my pieces which I have created back lets say 2 years ago and now, I notice there is a significant difference. Sure I do still shitty things and probably banal ideas but some things get better and more sophisticated. Its simply a long term process and its not done overnight. And in the end to quote Martin not exactly but the intention: Do what you love because you need passion about things otherwise you don´t indulge yourself and your soul. You have to live that vibe.

    Martin Hoffmann likes this.
  13. first off great job man, I was jamming this in my car yesterday and I really like it. lots of drama and contrast to keep you entertained the whole time. its funny it seems like the mockup gets more convincing as it goes along. I can't really comment on the composition or orchestration too much because its honestly a bit beyond me lol.
    what I can say is that it really seems to tell a story. did you have a specific subject/story in mind when you wrote this? I would be cool to listen to it with context.

    that would be awesome if you could get this performed, It seems like it deserves a real orchestra.

    Yes! this is why I've never participated in other internet music/production forums. Everyone is either arguing about sample libraries/plug-ins or finding reasons to send snarky backhanded remarks at each other. such a waste of goddamn time.

    it was cool watching something like this evolve from your original piano sketch to a full orchestral piece. its funny now that I've heard the orchestral version, I found myself humming parts of it throughout the day lol. when I originally listened to the piano version it didn't "stick in my head" as much.

    great work, looking forward to more.
    Alexander Schiborr likes this.
  14. Alexander, I was confused listening to all the versions but it is really charming music, consistently interesting and imaginative, and the MIDI performance seems close to flawless, just beautifully done - I only noticed some too-quick releases in strings especially cellos in one of the early versions, but you probably corrected that. I am so impressed, also glad I came over to this forum after the toxic VI Control. Holy crap! Those people are twisted. I briefly tried it after being on VSL Forum for many years. Alexander you seem way too concerned over whether it is working - it is excellent already, as is. I am excited about hearing more of such wonderful music here.
    Alexander Schiborr likes this.
  15. #75 Alexander Schiborr, Oct 9, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
    William, thanks so much for the input and feedback. Very much appreciated and so glad you did enjoy the track. Yes, it can be a bit confusing. People who know me a bit longer here know that I do such things as they can see a bit of the creation process behind such longer symphonic pieces. I often try not only to share some of my work but also try to shed a bit light on the creation process. Which eventually can help others to understand the motivation and my choices better.

    William I am big fan of the music from the romantic era but also a huge fan of 1930s and 1940s music. So I love Korngold, Steiner, Webb, Raksin, but also I am big fan of Mahler (pretty much all of his symphonies), Tschaikowsky, Wagner and many more. I actually started studying Jazz a while ago and transcribing a lot of music from both eras to indulge myself into the mindset of that fantastic music era where the composers had so much level of craft and control over their writing which is absolutely impressive to me. Also I studied with my mate @Dillon DeRosa for a year right now together music from the greats specifically a lot of Tschaikowsky and Dillon is great composer but simply humble very modest guy. He pushed my quite a lot in order that I crack my weak points. Check also out his stuff.

    I really also enjoy your romantic symphony quite a lot and its awesome to see such longform piece these days. In my humble opinion you really do set yourself apart from many others and its a pity that you got some negative replies.

    Though to be fair: There are a few people over there which are really good but its the absolute minority and mostly the old members still hanging around there still have learned their craft. For instance one guy which I think is great is Saxer (that´s his ViC name). He writes Big Band and Jazz tunes and he is really good with that. I wish he would join this forum here more frequently in order to share some of his techniques and devices. So in case Saxer if you read that: Please give it a try, you are awesome and I think many could learn from you as well.

    You know also even if I or someone else would not like your music or style its undoubtly clear to accept the level of craft behind your work in my opinion. The majority of people there is unfortunately only focussed on consumerism (buying all the day libraries, searching for discounts, battling and breaking their head over library pros and cons and then fighting over that things until that point that it escalates so that the topics are moved into an off topic area by the administration) and then these people are wondering why their music and orchestration in the end still sucks through the roof though they own the most advanced libraries on the market. And then there is also quite a tendency of lazy folks over there. I don´t know where that comes from, but the lazyness of some people there is simply mindboggling for me. I wonder about that mentality that people being even lazy to find out even the most simplest things by themselves. So in the end they don´t learn whats really important to become a great composer: Studying compositon and orchestration from the greats in music history. All that points together I decided a couple of weeks ago to butt myself out from that forum entirely.

    And last but not least there is no thing like that you can please everybody with your music. There will be always people who simply don´t like your stuff regardless what you do and I would say: Take out the things which are valuable for you and the rest: Simply ignore and move on. Thats the best what you can do at that point.

    @Alex O'Hagan I will reply in a seperate post, mate.
  16. Alexander, you are so right on all those points. Also about the background of music, which sounds exactly like my inspirations. I'm startled you mentioned Roy Webb - he is rarely talked about but his scores for the Val Lewton films are some of my all-time favorites - the most delicate impressionistic sound along with powerful themes and accents, and the orchestration fascinates me, because as a composer on those lower budgeted films he had only a small orchestra to work with: a chamber sized string ensemble, about 4 brass, harp, one percussion and 7 woodwinds. He focused on the soloistic sounds to create a huge amount of variety which makes it hard to tell it was such a small orchestra. There is also really interesting harmony in those scores - mainly tonal but often going into bitonality. On the Seventh Victim especially. All of the full scores for those were lost (or discarded by RKO) and so any modern performance had to reconstruct them from the mixed soundtrack, but John Morgan did that perfectly on the CD of Val Lewton that was recently recorded.

    Sorry for the diversion but I was excited to hear someone else mentioning Webb!

    But going back to your piece I see how you are going through the process, and revealing the various twists and turns - that is a great idea for a Forum. Also helps with promoting your work. I was recently reading an Austin Kleon book talking about that sharing of process being one of the best things not only for people receiving it but also for the artist giving it.

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