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Mockup in progress - Jumanji

Discussion in 'Critique & Feedback' started by Noam Levy, Apr 6, 2018.

  1. Hey everyone,

    I am working on a mockup of one of Henry Jackman's scores (Jumanji: Welcome To The Jungle, 2017)

    It contains a lot of super-aggressive brass writing. (fun!)
    Here is the reference track: https://www.dropbox.com/s/wutlhkjy9fitxcq/Jumanji_REFERENCETRACK.wav?dl=0

    Here is what I've done for the horns and trumpets (percussion added for context): https://www.dropbox.com/s/wcq9eu4tybzw0gz/Jumanji_ROUGHMIX.wav?dl=0

    I'm using Adventure Brass with some of Jasper Blunk's Fortissimo Brass mixed in, and Hollywood Brass Gold for some sfx (fluttertongue).

    here is what the brass sounds like originally before processing: https://www.dropbox.com/s/z8u7ju73zeesach/Jumanji_OriginalBrassSound.wav?dl=0 (this is still with added reverb, panning etc)

    But I made a lot of corrective EQ: for the trumpets, I boosted at 4k and 7.3k, cut at 2.4k and 1k, and cut a lot above 10k. For the horns I cut between 300-1k and added a lot between 2k and 10k. It seemed to be the only way to get a really aggressive brass sound.

    However, listening against the reference track, I'm still missing a kind of sparkly brilliance. My mix sounds aggressive but it also sounds kind of boxy and honky?

    I'm wondering if applying so much corrective EQ is the wrong move and there might be a better way to approach this.
  2. #2 Aaron Venture, Apr 6, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2018
    Hey Noam,

    I work a lot with Adventure Brass so I'm familiar with its troubles. The sound overall needs more "room" and thus low-mids. I like to add brightness too. Here's that first horn line. Is this along the lines of what you're looking for?

    The noticeable air would get eaten up to a degree by all the other instruments. As for the sparkly brilliance, Adventure Horns really are missing that embochure cuivre.
  3. Wow, yeah that's really good Aaron! How the hell did you do that so quick?! :D

    In fact my version sounds kind of telephone-EQ'd in comparison. You're definitely getting closer to the real track.
  4. Thanks!

    Black magic, of course! :cool: My template happened to be open and I just played the horn line in, printed and uploaded.

    Space-wise, add some more early reflections. Altiverb and Waves H-reverb have fantastic ER separation, any of the two will do. Add a tail reverb of your choice. My Adventure Brass bus has a +12db shelf on the high end, starting at 2KHz (reaching 12db at around 11KHz) and a +10db low shelf starting at ~400Hz and reaching +10db at around 95Hz. Additionally, the horns have a dynamic EQ bell band at around 4KHz that ducks down by ~3.5db when they're at FF and it has a fairly quick release - they aren't muffled while they're playing quietly and this just takes away the harshness when they're blasting.

    I'm sure you already know this (maybe someone else finds it useful); If you have a horn patch that has the cuivre AB Horns are missing, you can layer them on top (in the same instance, on the same channel). If you don't want the actual sound of that layered patch or the "increased section size", you can drop a high-pass filter at ~8KHz and only the high-end buzz will pass through. If it's a single layer patch like Spitfire a6 Horns Long Cuivre, you can drop a 24db/oct Low Pass filter and map the frequency to CC1. That way When you're high up, you'll get the high buzz, but when you're playing quieter, almost nothing will come through because of the high pass filter sitting at 8KHz and the low pass filter being dragged down along with your CC1 fader (creating a nice fake timbre change with the filter, much like Adventure Brass already does), essentially cutting everything off. Additionally, you can re-map the expression of only that patch to some other CC value you have a fader for, since Adventure Brass uses only CC1 and CC11, and now you'll have control of when you want the Cuivre patch to actually appear (short notes and stuff like that), all inside the MIDI clip. I didn't include this in my demo above (just wanted to show clean Adventure Horns).

    I think this is one of the best ways to go about it. Definitely better than having the cuivre on a separate track. I mean you're free to if you want to use that sound on its own, but the Spitfire one is a 6 MB patch so it costs basically nothing to have another instance of it serving this purpose. This way, whenever you move or re-perform the horns, the cuivre is automated along, you have control over the actual volume with your fader and you're only ever dealing with one MIDI clip.
  5. Wow, that EQ is so simple and yet it works SO much better. I see where I screwed up now - trying to add more presence and brilliance around 4k but this was also adding harshness. Your high shelf adds brilliance without changing the core character of the sound too much.

    I plan to add more verb on the master, right now I am positioning everything through QL Spaces Culver Stage 2 since that is (I'm 99% sure) the IR of Sony/MGM where the score was recorded.

    One more question - you said that your big U-shaped EQ was on the Adventure Brass bus. Does that include the trombones and tuba? Won't they get messed up by so much boosting around 100Hz? Or did I misunderstand and you have different EQs for the different brass sections.
    John Eldridge likes this.
  6. Very impressive work from both of you. Aaron you are an artist.
    Aaron Venture and John Eldridge like this.
    Runar Lundvall and Aaron Venture like this.
  8. Hi Doug, haven't seen any posts of yours lately. Glad you are still here. I always enjoy your contributions.
    Matthias Calis and Doug Gibson like this.
  9. I was sick for about a week, and this week I had to take the Mrs to the emergency room. We think she might have gal stones.
    So, with all that and professional deadlines, my internet addiction has needed to come 2nd.

    but it's back !
  10. Yikes. I really don't like doing this. Especially because of percussion. I have two tail reverbs on receives, and Send tracks/busses to one or both of them. One is B2 with a great airy damping filter and the nicest modulation I could find in a software reverb and the other is LXPHall that has a lovely warm low-mid range. Sum send amounts also differ per section. Woodwinds send the most, strings send the least. I also send in whatever dry instruments I end up adding, like chimes or shakers or whatever (depending on libraries).

    I used to have per-bus reverb but then the parallel dynamics processing I do on it would make the whole mix sound like it was striped in recording so I now do a sent-to reverb.

    Yep, it's on the bus - trumpets, bones and tuba go through it as well. The whole library just needs more oomph and this does it while keeping it in balance. Enjoy your new power trombones!

    Like for the horns, trombones have a dynamic bell EQ band at 4KHz too (this dynamic EQ is section specific, because if that were on the bus, horns/bones getting loud would duck down the 4KHz region of all the sections, which isn't what I really want here), only this one goes down to-5db. I don't have ones for the trumpets or the tuba (the tuba is fine and I use it here and there, but the trumpets I rarely use beyond sketching).
    Noam Levy likes this.
  11. I'm a little confused how to set this up as I'm interested in trying your idea out. Do you mean something like this EQ mapping the High Cut (blue one) to CC1? I admit I'm confused cause if I control the High Cut and bring it past (to the left) of the Low cut I get a some weird noises.

  12. Hi Noam,
    Cool piece and very well done. I actually think that this sounds like a good scoring stage recording sound. I like it actually how it is now. Sure you can polish stuff more, but the most important aspect what you got imo right on spot is the balance. Man..that was some work, right? How did you treat all those fast lines with the winds and strings? Could you give me there a bit more insight? Thank you. And again: Impressive Job here!
  13. Yes, that's what I was talking about. Huh, that's weird. I just tried Pro-Q 2 and I'm not getting any weird noises. I'd suggest mapping frequency to CC1 via your DAW instead of via the FabFilter instance (their MIDI is sometimes wonky).

    You can also do it right in Kontakt. Click on the wrench for the cuivre patch, go to InsertEffects, add a SV HP2 and set it to 8KHz, then add a SV LP4 and right click the frequency and map it to CC1. Adjust the main volume to your liking.
    Dillon DeRosa likes this.
  14. Thank you Aaron. Doing it in Kontakt worked perfectly for me. Genius man, thanks again! <3
    Aaron Venture likes this.
  15. Wait, I think you are mistaken Alexander... The one with the complete sound (brass, winds, strings) is the REAL recording! :)
    Alexander Schiborr likes this.
  16. Yeah, he posted about "beer time" in chat a few minutes prior.
    Alexander Schiborr likes this.
  17. oh boy, I heard the reference track thinking that was the mockup..and I thought: Damn, that sounds so legit...thinking how he did achieve that runs and micro articulations..meh..:p:D
  18. #18 Alexander Schiborr, Apr 7, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2018
    Bürsten mit weissen Borsten bürsten mir gerade den Kopp besser als Bürsten mit schwarzen Borsten bürsten. =

    Brushes with white bristles are just brushing my hair better than brushing with black bristles. while having a beer
    Noam Levy likes this.
  19. One might ask: "When are you not?"

    Alexander Schiborr likes this.
  20. #20 Alexander Schiborr, Apr 7, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2018
    Hajjaa I celebrate that much and talk too much. Picture is great though:D
    Aaron Venture likes this.

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