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Last Jedi Score Streaming Free on Amazon Music

Discussion in 'Score Study Resources' started by Gharun Lacy, Dec 15, 2017.

  1. So in particular what you liked or didnt liked then?
     
  2. #22 Paul T McGraw, Dec 18, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
  3. I feel that this is going on for quite a while. Hm...well cds seem to be dead for years, I mean..depends on the genre. I know small subgenres where they actually value physical products (incl. myself) and even great vinyl productions
     
    Paul T McGraw likes this.
  4. Most of the people who buy CDs today don't buy them to hear new music. Especially now that you can hear almost any piece of music with a phone and an internet connection. They buy them for collections, some buy them for better quality than the YouTube stream. Not posting music to YouTube isn't gonna make people buy CDs, especially today, when someone else is simply gonna post it. They're just gonna go and listen to something else.

    It's gonna end up on YouTube either way. People are gonna click on it either way. Might as well be your own channel where you can freely monetize it and where people are more likely to click, because it's official.

    Then you also put it on Spotify, iTunes, AND CDs.

    So now you have people who would've bought CDs anyway, ad revenue from YouTube, stream revenue from Spotify, and revenue from additional iTunes and even CD sales to people who listened to the stream first, liked it so much and decided to buy it.
     
  5. #25 Paul T McGraw, Dec 18, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
    I guess I am just too old and out of touch with modern times. I still buy CDs including movie scores that I like. I enjoy YouTube but I prefer 16 bit 44.1 khz sound quality. I read that CDs are 1,411 kbps compared to the best MP3 of 320 kbps and YouTube sound (also Soundcloud) at about 128 kbps. So I guess I will keep buying CDs. Assuming I can. I don't suppose anyone here is a fan of the SACD format?

    I haven't seen the movie as of yet, but it seems to me that the core issue with modern movies is a lack of character development and exploration of ideas which makes it really hard to develop motives and melody. The fast cut, perpetual action in movies precludes any true character development most of the time. Same for ideas. And Williams is a master of the Wagnerian technique of describing a character or idea with a musical motive. So his strongest skill set does not get to be used much in these recent pictures. When he is given a chance, when at least a little character development occurs, he still has most of his old touch. Which is remarkable considering his age. As @Alexander Schiborr pointed out, how many 80-year-old composers are even working?

    In my view, this is more than just a complaint about the overuse of ostinato patterns. A good motive or melody that tugs at the human heart is the most difficult part of writing music. Perhaps composers who just use ostinato and orchestral gestures are forced to write that way by directors. Or perhaps they are forced to write that way because they are not capable of writing a truly powerful motive or melody? Or perhaps because of the way directors create movies, nobody really cares anymore. It isn't easy to fit anything worthwhile into these fast-cut action movies anyway.
     
  6. Yepp you sum it up to the point imo. There is a composer whos skillset at its best what he has is not used to its effect anymore because those films doesn´t allow that anymore. There isn´t locked picture anymore so you are not writing to something which is final or close to final. Of course he is capable or was, but man..he is 85 or 86? and then this..and people are still complaining that this is not raiders or old star wars or whatever. I get grey hairs..with that. It is a bit depressing.
     
    Paul T McGraw likes this.
  7. @Alexander Schiborr I'd be happy to give you a novel-length rant about all the things wrong with this latest Star Wars film, but I couldn't possibly do so without massive spoilers. So let me boil it down to it's essence (spoiler free rant follows). To me, the film is nothing more than plot. There are hardly any characters to speak of. I mean yes, of course there are characters in the film, but honestly I don't give a single flying you-know-what about any of them. @Paul T McGraw touched on the essential problem there. Lack of character development.

    @Paul T McGraw you hit the nail on the head regarding the "perpetual action" too! I'm 25 and this film made me feel like my parents who always complain when the action gets too heavy-handed/too much. It truly was exhausting and draining to watch. I have nothing against action, but there are hardly any calm moments in this film and it sucks because that translates into almost zero character development and, more relevant to the discussion here there is almost no time for the music to breathe. There almost no downtime, no contrast against the action, and what little there is of it feels rather forced.

    In many ways this film has been an eye-opener to me. I could never quite put my finger on what I disliked so much about most recent blockbuster productions, but now I know. To me, the real heart of the problem is that there is no why. There is a lot of plot/stuff that happens in a particular order but there's almost no reason to any of it. It really truly is a shell. It looks like Star Wars, but that's about where the similarities end for me.

    I could probably poke a few holes in the original trilogy too (regarding the "why" of things), but the original trilogy and even the prequels have an actual dramatic core. Here, there is none of that. Utterly forgetable film.

    i don't usually get this ranty about this kind of stuff, but I want off this godawful Disney train (which doesn't just plague Star Wars)
     
  8. CDs aren't dead, neither is vinyl. They're not thriving, but they're not dead. Modern =/= better.

    I hate streaming. It's super convenient, sure, and rather useful, but as a primary means for listening, I think it's (as usual with humanity) convenience and cost over quality of experience. Many people severely underestimate the complexity of our psychology, and the tactile, procedural experience of pulling out a CD/vinyl, listening to it from start to finish and in the order it was intended to be listened to, is a very different kind of experience than streaming, especially considering the value of holding artwork in one's hands, etc. For myself anyway, my attention span tends to be far shorter while streaming, and I often get sidetracked and do other things. Most streaming sites also don't have 44.1/16 options uncompressed (FLAC and ALAC aside), nevermind 96/24. Nevermind 96/24 in 5.1 HDDVD or Blu-Ray.

    We also underestimate how we perceive value -- if you pay for something, you tend to value it more than if it's streaming (even if you pay for streaming), because it's "yours". You don't just have access to it. It's sort of like borrowing a book vs owning it. Useful, sure, but different. Furthermore, if you pay for something physical, you tend to value it even more.

    I find streaming immensely useful for trying out new music, discovering things, transcribing, etc. But I go out and purchase every CD/vinyl I consider worth listening to.


    Anyway, back on topic: It's a shame to see this kind of nonsense perpetuate in Hollywood with so few breaking the mold. I don't game all that much, but it's comforting to see that at least in that industry, "breaking the mold" innovation is at least more widely regarded and tends to be more popular. You have bi-annual games like COD and Assassin's Creed being crapped out ever so often, but games like Senua's Sacrifice, Bloodborne, Darksouls are vast opposites, one dealing in a very innovative way with mental illness and psychosis, others being quite difficult with zero spoon-feeding, with a cryptic but cohesive story that takes a lot of exploration and attention to understand and discover.
     
    Paul T McGraw likes this.
  9. OH I see. Well, similiar feelings regarding the characters I had when watching Rogue One: I did actually care for nobody there..and regarding the action: If it is overloaded it can be tiring I have to agree with that. Reading through your comment I wasn´t really having of a big expactation from the sequel but it seems even worse. Curious why it got so many good reviews in the internet though. Maybe people can´t distinguish between plot and drama.
     
    Paul T McGraw likes this.
  10. #30 Matt Varone, Dec 20, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
    I have this feeling that, in general, people now a days seem to want content to mold to them to give exactly what they expect. Not saying specially for this movie, it's all across movies, tv shows and games in particular. There seems to be less patience and openness to just enjoy something and accept what the content creator was trying to communicate. Not sure why is that. Maybe we are too spoiled, or content is all pretty bad?

    As for TLJ, I've seen it twice already and actually enjoyed it. Of course this is a Disney popcorn movie, meant to be fun and light (and set ground for more movies/cash). I think they did a great job at that. Expecting something serious and fulfilling out of it probably isn't very wise.

    The weakest link for me was the art direction. How it was filmed, the pace, the editing, etc. It's something subtle and hard to describe for me due to my lack of technical knowledge. But I can definitely say I enjoyed more JJ Abrams filming style.

    The twist and turns on the story were quite unexpected and surprising, not something easy to achieve on 2017. Poe's arc was well handled in my opinion.

    And it's sad to say but honestly didn't care that much for the music on this film. As someone mentioned before, it all felt more like moments, which somehow makes the whole themes/motif thing a bit cheesy and worn to me. Probably the pacing and story was the reason of this.
     
    Noam Levy likes this.
  11. #31 Noam Levy, Dec 20, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
    I wrote a long spoiler free post on VIC about it, immediately after seeing the movie.

    And before finding out how hated it is across the Internet! Wow!

    Having had a few days to turn it over in my head... The more I think about it the more I strongly dislike the Disney Trilogy, and love this movie for what it does inside that trilogy.

    Whereas the Internet's overall reaction has been the opposite. They liked Force Awakens and they loooove Rogue One, but TLJ is earning a lot of hate, apparently for not being "TFA Part 2."

    I think many people who dislike TLJ are coming to terms with how awful the "First Order vs Resistance" storyline is. It's certainly shallow and stupid in a more obvious way than in TFA. In thinking about the movie, again without spoilers, I realized that you could erase entire characters and scenes without changing the plot one bit. That's pretty dumb. And I guess it revises downward my opinion of that side of the film.

    But the truth is, nitpicking aside, these new movies never have & never will set up any stakes that are worth unwinding the conclusion of Luke's story in Episode 6. That is true of both movies in the Disney Trilogy so far. I didn't go into this movie at all excited to see more of the First Order or the Resistance, and I'd be baffled if anyone did.

    It's sadly transparent where this "First Order vs Resistance" nonsense comes from. It comes from outside of any storytelling rationale, but rather from Disney paying an insane $4,000,000,000 for Star Wars. The right to tell a new story isn't worth billions. The right to reuse all the iconic "stuff" from the last movies may be worth that (if monetized across movies, theme parks, tv shows, bath mats...). And so we get movies filled with the old "stuff" and centering around the same Space Nazis vs Plucky Rebels conflict, because following this strategy is the only way for Disney to recoup.

    So the way I see it this new trilogy is a disappointing and stale mess; with those expectations set, TLJ is a surprisingly fun and creative movie. It's the best version of the disappointing mess that we are likely to get. In particular it focuses on Adam Driver who is the best thing about these movies, and Daisy Ridley who is probably the 2nd best thing. And it puts these two very worthy actors in a story where I was genuinely interested and uncertain about what their characters would decide to do.
     
  12. #32 Rohann van Rensburg, Dec 22, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2017
    I don't really understand this. Maybe a fan of Rogue One can elaborate, but I found it had the sort of flat acting and..."old-school" dialogue writing of A New Hope but without any of the charm. I think the only thing I really remember about that film was the ending.
    TFA I didn't really mind, because I liked Adam and Daisy (...sort-of. The whole "Daisy is instantly amazing at everything" felt a little ham-fisted. I like female leads, but not when I feel like the writers are trying too hard). Plot-wise it was clear they were doing a rehash of old Star Wars, and while I didn't find it interesting I at least understood why they'd done it and didn't mind as much. I thought it had (at least) the potential for decent character storylines.

    I think right there is the crux of the issue -- they spent an awful lot of money on this series, and as such I doubt they're going to take significant risks. I'm sure writers and directors will want to, but that's got to be one of the most expensive franchise purchases in history and I really hope it doesn't go the way of Avengers (read: a boring, predictable, neverending cash grab).

    I think those two are the only reason I'm really interested in the new film.
     
  13. I was just thinking, if it is useful to anyone I exported the MIDI and an XML file of the little except that I transcribed a week ago when this thread first appeared.

    MIDI
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/n0fdicebbb5joqw/THE FATHIERS.mid?dl=0

    XML

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/64thgon0nbeptq3/THE FATHIERS.xml?dl=0


    I'm not saying it's authentically accurate at all. Just wrote it out that night I read the thread. But if it's useful...... go for it.
    Should be "in the ball park" at least.

    My mp3 Sibelius playback below. The soundtrack version underneath that.





     
  14. Finally saw it. Score was great, and I thought I would like it despite the negative press it got. However...
    Where did pacing go? As usual, action with little consequence, too many pseudo-climaxes in the film, too much predictability, tension not proportionate to action, etc etc. I kind of agree with Mark Hamill that the franchise, at least from an artistic standpoint, should have been left alone to stay buried and appreciated for what it was. There are some redemptive qualities, certainly -- I quite like Adam Driver and what he's done with the character of Ren, and I do like Daisy as well, and this film took more risks than previous films. But it still doesn't feel like enough -- there's too much "Avengers-itis" present in so many big budget action-oriented films these days, I find myself getting bored so quickly (I've become rather jaded). You can feel the franchise being strung along without an end in sight. The tension of episode 5 just wasn't there. Even the prequels had a better sense of pacing sometimes. I'm not even sure I agree that this was better than TFA; it's not that TFA had a better plotline or originality to it, but I liked a few of the characters and thought it would provide potential to the future of the franchise. It at least gave me a vague sense of hope for where the films would go.

    I did pay more attention to the score than the film in the end though, so that's a bonus. Aside from that, I couldn't help but find myself wishing I was at home finishing Sicario (even though that's not a genre I usually attend to).
     

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