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Fuck the Machine

Discussion in 'RedBanned TV' started by Mike Verta, Jul 12, 2017.

  1. True but the original point was to be weary of shortcuts that are actually harmful to your process at some level. Synth / DAW production mastery is the entire paradigm of EDM. Deadmau5 is completely a slave to MIDI and yeah that's pathetic but he clearly makes it work.
  2. Certainly in the Verta household, if one can't transport the music - that is carry it around internally and give it to people - it's not music. If we can't hum or it sing it or whistle it and pass it to others, it's pretty sound design we can dance to, but it's not music - at least not in the way that music had previously been defined for the entirety of human civilization, where it has always been a societal backbone. In the most remote regions of the world where primitive tribes still exist, they have percussion patterns and rhythms which are passed from generation to generation, marking significant events and rituals. Primitive melodies in a thousand modes and scales have been learned, passed on and recited for thousands of years. This has always been inextricably linked to the definition of music. And then there's EDM, and its ilk. It can be heard, it can be enjoyed, it can be admired, it can be valued, but so can a blowjob. That don't make it music. Ask somebody to recite and pass on a Deadmau5 tune to somebody else, and then we've got something; at least we've had what music has had since the creation of music. Take those delineations away, and then virtually every sound is music - which is certainly good news to no shortage of shitty musicians, I understand. But that's not really the bar we aim for 'round these parts.
    Steven Faile and Luke Johnson like this.
  3. Well, I wasn't aware you were talking about musicians jamming with each other and instead talking about his reliance on technology being a "crutch"?

    Yes. Probably broke and nowhere near the heights of where he is. Regardless of his music being shit or not. Funny how things work out.
    Steven Faile likes this.
  4. Deadmau5 meets both Mike's and Merriam Webster's definitions of music imo. Some of his tunes are a fuck ton more memorable and artistic than many A-list film composers.
    Steven Faile likes this.
  5. But those are not skills that are mutually exclusive with other musically relevant skills. And let us be honest, he is no master of synths or production, there are artists out there who do sound design on a whole another level, while also composing melodically sound music.

    The crutch is what he used instead of learning the skills that would allow him to jam or just perform for his own enjoyment.

    Why? It is not like he can only work on EDM, he spends a good amount of time on playing video games which he could very well use on bettering himself as a musician. Not trying to make him sound lazy, but learning more would in no way hinder him in his EDM career. The problem is that he does not have to care, because he is already fulfilled in his musical endeavors.
  6. #26 Steven Faile, Jul 20, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2017
    Haha same here! The video was thought provoking enough to make me respond. Personally, the more genres I've attempted for briefs the less biasses I seem to have and realize that there are so many more skills to perfect across genres but that's getting away from the point of the post.

    Slightly off topic: Speaking of tech...one thing's for sure...I've got to start unsubscribing to some of these the sample library email lists. The time limited sales pressure offers are just too tempting!
  7. #27 Luke Johnson, Jul 20, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2017
    Why? Because he could have very well taken a different road if he had learnt how to play and perform. He could have fallen in love with performing music and never made the same musical decisions that he would have done using a Mouse clicking notes in. He could have turned into a Concert Pianist after falling in Love with Playing Classical music on the Piano. Perhaps he turned into a film composer and fell in love with the Orchestra and use of Synthesis (seats taken with that one with HZ really isn't it), how about becoming an orchestrator, and perhaps developed a hatred for Electronic music the more he got into playing, performing and moving far away from EDM? Who knows, I certainly don't, but I predict he would not be doing whatever it is he is doing that has led to millions of people loving is stuff and has the "sound" of his particular music. He could have just joined the ranks of every other mediocre plagiarist waiting in line for his next Meth bump. Haha! Ok maybe not but the fact is, I'll never know. Nor care.

    I'm not disagreeing with any of the stuff you have said and myself would hate to not be able to play a Piano, Guitar and other live instruments that I play because I am first and foremost a musician not a Producer but certain choices lead to certain results and considering how massive he is, I'm pretty sure he thinks he has made the right choices regardless of what anyone unknown thinks about him. I would.
    Steven Faile likes this.
  8. Easy...let's not give the Meth heads a bad name. :D
    Luke Johnson likes this.
  9. Haha! Of course. Lend me 20 bucks.

    And yes. About learning more. In the Deadmou5 Masterclass trailer, he looks pissed off saying how annoying it is not being able to play. WELL FUCKING LEARN THEN. It's not like he can't afford to or spend the time getting better. I think half the stuff these people say is just for effect. Just like that stupid Mouse Helmet. ;)
    Steven Faile likes this.
  10. That part was hilarious. The whole class is worth it for his self deprecation alone. He is well aware that he is a complete hack, which is why he's the only EDM artist I can appreciate at some level.
    Steven Faile likes this.
  11. I admit I don't know the full Deadmau5 repertoire, so if you were going to sing me one of his songs which I could then pass onto my son, like, say, Happy Birthday or a Shakespeare soliloquy, which would it be?
  12. I think this is one catchy ass pop tune.
  13. #33 Mike Verta, Jul 21, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2017
    That's not what I asked, and I'm not going to click on it yet - I don't want to have heard it yet. Let's actually put this in the lab and test out the theory! I asked which one you could sing to me and make me understand - the transportable nature of music. So go ahead and record yourself singing it and post it, and I'll see if I can get it in a way which makes any musical sense. Since this quality unifies all cherished music prior to the modern age, let's see how this fares. I'm legitimately curious. Remember neither being catchy nor enjoyable are the defining qualities here. Any sufficiently simple pattern is catchy and can be enjoyable. But not every enjoyable pattern is musically significant or transportable.
    Kyle Preston likes this.
  14. That is a good point, but he still could have started at any point after he made it big.

  15. #35 Rohann van Rensburg, Jul 21, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2017
    I feel like technology, as a crutch, often does hit a ceiling at some point; I'd hope that the metaphorical cream does rise, but there are certainly long stretches where this isn't the case.

    I think it's being seen now with the abundance of unsubstantial "epic" music, and a sort of saturation with CGI. "Epic" music has obviously been parodying itself for a while -- it's become increasingly easy to, relatively believably, create giant orchestras with VI's and create purely vertical songs and cues that, initially, sound impressive, but grow tiring awfully quickly, Similarly, CGI looks incredible now, but people aren't impressed by it anymore. In both cases, when the novelty wears off and people realize there's no substance, many seem to get turned off (i.e. The Hobbit being harshly criticized and considered an abysmal failure, while LOTR is still well-loved and critically acclaimed -- they hand wove over a million links of chain mail and the movie has aged quite well, whereas the Hobbit almost instantly aged and Peter Jackson apologized for the abomination that it was). When used properly (i.e. for motion capture ala Gollum, Caesar in Planet of the Apes, many videogame characters in recent times) it can certainly facilitate new creative forms, but using it as an end rather than a tool is obviously a problem.

    Re: music definitions. Indeed, those memorable, transportable melodies that virtually every recent civilization has built their music on (paired with rhythm in many cases) is certainly the foundation, but I think it's a slightly narrow definition of music if it's meant to lessen the value of the "sound design".

    For instance, this is certainly a difficult tune to whistle or communicate, despite important harmonic development and attention to structure. I certainly found it memorable upon hearing it though, and despite its dissonance I certainly wouldn't not call it music (as much as non-metal fans would beg to differ, I'm sure :D).
    However, I suppose one could argue that even more obscure ideas are still communicable, whereas in a lot of EDM there isn't really any strong sense of harmonic development or melody.


  16. Jean-Jacques Nattiez - "The border between music and noise is always culturally defined—which implies that, even within a single society, this border does not always pass through the same place; in short, there is rarely a consensus ... By all accounts there is no single and intercultural universal concept defining what music might be"

    The Deadmau5 song is literally recorded and being performed to you. To say we have to delineate some form out of it to meet a strictly quantifiable definition of music is completely ethnocentric and unnecessary. I understand what you're implying and disagree. And I'm completely fine with that. Music means many different things to many different people. Boundaries are only important so our artists can deconstruct and evolve them.
    Rohann van Rensburg likes this.
  17. Greg, in order to better understand your perspective, I went to your YouTube channel and listened to some of your pieces - Riding through the Sunset, Mentality and Dukkha. You have some really nice production value there and a clear sense of the kind of moods that you want to evoke. If you increase your harmonic vocabulary, you won't be forced to say the same thing over and over again in your pieces, constantly vertically repackaging it to keep it interesting. "Riding through the Sunset" is a perfect example. It's Fmin>Eb>Bb (Imin>b7min>IV) repeated endlessly for 5 full minutes. Now, don't get me wrong, this exact progression got Chris Isaak through "Wicked Game" (albeit a minute shorter, plus the lyrics told a story)

    ...but if we really want to be able to service the full range of human emotions in a long-form context, there's no way around having to increase our ability to develop ideas, harmonically. It's the difference between vertical development and horizontal development. Certainly within these walls you will find all the tools you need to radically increase your ability and become a much more powerful composer. Believe me, it's a more rewarding path than the alternative.
    Steven Faile likes this.
  18. Thanks for listening to my stuff! Your classes and other music have definitely already pushed me in that direction. My lack of long form skill is starting to get boring.
  19. Can someone define "Long Form"? Yes, I understand it's music over a much longer duration of time but as modern film directors don't make films like they used to, how does long form writing work these days? Genuinely have no idea...
  20. My fave example of long form film scoring:

    Steven Faile and Joakim Alraek like this.

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