1. Didja accidentally blow through the whole, "We're using our real names" thing on registration? No problem, just send me (Mike) a Conversation message and I'll get you sorted, by which I mean hammered-into-obedient-line because I'm SO about having a lot of individuality-destroying, oppressive shit all over my forum.
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  2. You're only as good as the harshest criticism you're willing to hear.
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What do you use?

Discussion in 'Tips, Tricks & Talk' started by Mike Verta, Jul 2, 2017.

  1. Strings
    • Spitfire Chamber Strings
    • Spitfire Mural
    • Spitfire Albion One
    • VirHarmonic Bohemian Violin
    • Best Service Emotional Cello
    Percussion
    • Spitfire HZ Percussion
    • Spitfire Albion One
    • Damage
    Piano/Harp
    • NI Maverick
    • NI Giant
    • NI Grandeur
    • Kontakt Factory Harp
    Woodwinds
    • Kontakt Factory Library
    • Spitfire Albion ONE
    Brass
    • Spitfire Albion ONE
    DAW
    • Logic Pro
    • Garageband (iOS)

    Thanks for this thread, the list actually gives me a lot of clarity about what I'm lacking.
     
  2. If CSS can't "land on the beat" by it's lonesome, the question becomes, "Is CSS the BEST strings that you can buy OVERALL (correct functions included ) or are they "The best SOUNDING strings that you can buy, MINUS the OS difficulties?"
    Also, the term "best" is totally subjective and arbitrary and ALWAYS open for debate.

    It's NOT the tools, that matter-what matters is the PRO's ability to get the BEST our of the tools he or she has chosen to work with.

    In the now, there are SOOOO many choices in our home recording gear, as to drive a lot of people simply NUTS at times.

    Or, as an old friend of mine once said:

    "No matter how big your ranch is, you can still wind up with too many steers!"

    I see that often, and I see it here and it becomes a real big problem, should your "Master Set-up" should fall victim to something as simple as a computer crash, or even worse, a virus.

    Back when TASCAM started the home studio revolution, in 1980, things were very simple, machine wise ( The first Portastudio)
    You got 4 tracks on a cassette unit that housed a mixer and some ins and outs.

    Today? You have people almost having to come up with excuses as to WHY they have a MIDI Orchestra, that is comprised of several different fathers. And even today, the same problems exist as they did back in 1990 when everyone had CAKEWALK and was cussing it out on a regular basis.

    Myself? All I was armed with was a $2,000 project studio, that only "crashed" when there was a blackout.
    HOW I managed to AVOID those blackouts, is beyond me.

    But, long story short, I got my work done on gear that lit up, every time I went to record.
     
  3. It doesn't have to be in the "Same Room".
    It SHOULD be in the same *overview*.....however.....
     
  4. Wow! Lovely music and job!
    I am just about on this side of "jealous."

    Just not yet!

    Good stuff! :) Keep it up!
     
  5. #45 Arne Barnard, Oct 29, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017
    And there goes the URBAN LEGEND that "Mike Verta" did NOT reveal his choice of software, because he was "suspicious" that other people would "rip him off" in terms of method.


    Well, it's just like cooking! Someone can have all the ingredients that a chef has, but NOT the knowledge *proper* on HOW the chef puts the ingredients together, not to mention the amounts.

    That case being settled, I ALWAYS post your STAR TREK INTRO THEME MIX as an example for the way that aspiring MIDI ORCHESTRAS should go, or at least, learn from.

    ( What programs, software did you use, Mr. Verta, to do this long awaited "Symphonic Version" of the STAR TREK Theme? I would like to add that even JOHN WILLIAMS himself, could NOT ( or chose NOT to ) even approach this, in the way that YOU did! All John Williams did, was a "hyped-up" version of the original theme, as put down by Alexander Courage.

    Your Orchestral Version is the one I will ALWAYS be a fan of! ( And many others that I have shared this link to!)

    Also note that I said MIDI ORCHESTRAS and NOT "MIDI Mock-ups." I HATED that term from the beginning, and it is high time, it was retired, so ALL of us can move on.

    As YOU and countless others have pointed out before, there ARE differences between MIDI and the "Real Thing".

    But, calling ANYONES honest work in this field, a MOCK UP is just disrespectful.

    I mean, did anyone ever call SPECIAL (VISUAL) EFFECTS for movies a "Mock-up"?

    NOPE. They were, and STILL continue to be Special Effects.
     
  6. #48 Arne Barnard, Oct 29, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017
    I rest my case......Mike Verta *wins*.....
     
  7. #49 John Royski, Nov 7, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2017
    I am new to virtual instruments and looking to buy an orchestral (or individual brass, wood wind, string, and percussion) library and need some advice. I am buying using school funds and need to keep the price reasonable. I was originally going to buy Hollywood Orchestra because the price is great, but the system requirements would also mean either buying new components, buying a new computer, or building a new computer. I need something pretty flexible, I'll be using them for various projects around the school. The spitfire libraries seem really popular, and looked very usable in all of the overview videos I watched on youtube.

    I'm currently looking at the spitfire libraries because they would cost approximately the same amount of money as buying Hollywood Orchestra + the additional computer components, but I could potentially use the libraries at home and at work. My computers at home and work both would not be able to run the play software, and I'd be stuck using one or the other. So my questions are:

    1. How demanding are the spitfire symphonic libraries? I have a computer with 8 gigs of ram, and decent processor
    2. How important is it to have a soundcard with ASIO drivers with the Spitfire libraries? I never heard of these drivers until I started researching these libraries.

    I downloaded the free Kontakt player software and their free libraries to test whether or not it would run, but I don't know how much the spitfire libraries would increase the need for more resources.

    Thanks in advance

    ***Edit- I expect the need to get more ram to run everything, but I am sure we could cannibalize a computer or two at work to fill that need. I work for a small school, with a small budget, so I'm just trying to be efficient.
     
  8. John, I teach adjunct at UArts, and man, I hear you... as a poor student, getting the premium libraries can be financially tough. I'm going to throw some ideas out at you, just to get you started, cheap:

    If money and RAM is an issue, you might want to try one of the following:

    1. Start with just the Kontakt 5 orchestra. Buy Kontakt 5 (I think there's a student discount), and use the built in library that comes with it. Make it work. Load up a template into your DAW, maybe research SIPS (a legato script) to add to your Kontakt instruments, and start mocking up using that. It's very memory light, and has a full orchestra. Mike V did a nice Galaxy Quest mockup using Kontakt 5, and he has a template you can download that is volume balanced. Start, by learning how to musically sculpt samples in your DAW.

    2. Or, go to This site:

    http://vis.versilstudios.net/vsco-community.html

    This is a community based orchestral recording group, that has a paid version of their orchestral sample library, but also a pretty nice free version also. You can download it, and start to build your template and mockup skills from there. Yes, it's not as sexy as SF or Orchestral Tools, but it's free, and it will make you learn how to sculpt performance in a DAW mockup.

    You can supplement those with really well recorded (and free) libraries from Alpine:

    http://alpineproject.wixsite.com/main

    In fact, I'm building a laptop template (8 GB RAM) and I'm using Alpine for the woodwinds. They're solid, and a super light footprint. They use SIPS to script the legato.

    3. Finally, there is a template that Jayden Lawrence built, using EW Gold Orchestra. That can fit into an 8gb footprint. I'll find the website for you. That will cost some money (buying EW Gold Orch and the template) but still cheap.

    Re: ASIO drivers. Yes, you almost absolutely need low latency ASIO drivers. I recommend getting a cheap sound interface (Focusrite has some quality inexpensive ones, the Sapphire, and one other), and using them. You need your computer to respond to your playing snappily.

    4. if you absolutely want "pro grade"... Cinesamples has an educational bundle.... look it up on your website.

    I know, this isn't the answer you might want to hear... but hear me out. Preparing to "go pro" involved lots of incremental steps, in my opinion. Just buying 4 huge libraries that sound good won't get you very far if you can't use it (old computer, too little RAM). AND, all the great mockup gurus understand how to perform their midi mockups using controllers, mixing, placement, etc. Just buying a kick butt library won't suddenly make you sound pro. Better (in my opinion) to save money... slowly and gently start learning to mockup and mix using clean, well recorded samples, and sharpen your ear. Then, if you feel that you need a library because of the sound and the "feel" of it... then spend the money. I have gigs (!) of "professional" sample libraries (SF Albion legacy, LASS Full, Cinewinds Core comes to mind), that I thought I *had* to have, cause it was the hottest thing out there at the time. Then, when I bought it, I realized I hated the sound of it, and didn't know how to program it properly... and my mockups suffered.

    I teach MIDI mockups to students, and I always encourage them to start lean... load up a clean, lean, LEGAL library and learn. Oh, and that's the other thing. I roll my eyes when my poor jazz students come in, with Spitfire Percussion, Cinebrass Core and Pro, Berlin Strings. Really?? Come on, man, I know those are cracked. Instead, learn the CRAFT of mocking up, and learn it using instruments that are easy for you to manipulate, etc.

    Save money, master your tools using free and legal software, then decide to expand. You'll save a TON of money in the long run.

    As always, my opinion.

    Mike
     
  9. What CPU?

    You absolutely need ASIO drivers. It will bypass the OS and go directly from your DAW to your soundcard. Of course, you can use ASIO4ALL on your onboard soundcard, but the idea is to carry as much data as fast as possible from your DAW to the soundcard. Even though Focusrite are cheap, I would stay the hell away. I have a Scarlett and it's terrible, to say the least. A good, reliable cheaper option would Native Instruments Traktor Audio 2 ($100? you can get a used MKI for about $50), or Komplete Audio 6 (at least twice as expensive as Audio 2). They too have their own little issues but they're not nearly as bad as Focusrite (how many years on the market and Scarlett drivers are still absolute trash?).

    Spitfire orchestra libraries don't have a "mixed" mic option - where they offer their mix of all their mic positions, and they're pretty wet, so you're find yourself using twice or thrice as much ram as you intended. Of course, you could write with only 1 position, and later render the mix in a separate instance, but that's a bit of a hassle because later if you want to change anything, you gotta go through the entire process again.

    Entire Spitfire Orchestra with percussion or HZ01, and by that I mean all the patches is ~250GB of space according to their website and and ~18GB of RAM for 1 mic position. That being said, all their libraries have individual patch instruments so you can load in exactly what and how you wish. They also have light patches with fewer round-robins for even lighter RAM usage. They also purge nicely so if you have an SSD you just might be able to fit it all in 16GB. (RAM isn't that expensive, another 8GB will let you get much more out of whatever you decide to go for). But I guess you could simply not use everything, and you'll have room to spare. Be mindful of legato patches which are very hungry compared to "Sustain" patches.

    Kontakt will also let you decide if you want to use more RAM or rely more on CPU+streaming.
     
  10. Most stuff is already said - but Spitfire also has educational discount (30% off).

    8 Gigs of ram isn't much, pump it up. One Spitfire Performance Legato patch uses roughly 1 GB.
     
  11. I 100% agree with this, I'm just in a budgetary use it or lose it kind of situation. I don't know if I'll be able to use these funds to purchase libraries like this in the future.

    I downloaded the free libraries you recommended, but I didn't have time to try them out last night. I don't havethe full kontakt 5 yet, just the player, so I'll see what I can do with the alpine when/if I purchase it. The potentially biggest downside that I read about the factory kontakt instruments is that they are only velocity sensitive and do not work with the mod wheel, but I have no idea if that's true.
     
  12. This is all stuff I would have never thought about before buying something, I'm glad you brought it to my attention. I knew I had a lot to learn, but the amount seems to keep getting larger instead of smaller lol.

    CPU
    3.6 GHz processor (i7 Pentium)
    16 Gigs Ram
    64 Bit Windows 10
    Sound card - integrated? It's owned by my school and I wasn't able to check yet (it's not in my class room).
     
  13. Hey Gharun. I'm just curious do You use only one ER setup from Numerical Sounds collection for all instruments ? Those IR's from Alexander Publishing course are just a fracture of FORTI SERTI IR collection. If I get it right FORTI SERTI collection is designed to use different IR per every instrument or section deppending on it's position in the room. I purchased Visual Orchestration 3 course as well and I also have those IRs. And I wonder how do You use it in full template context ? Do you use just one send fx buss with one Early Reflections IR and one with Tail IR ? Or do you use few sends with the same IR and change some settings in reverb plugin to get some separation ?
    Thanks ;)
     
  14. I’ve seemingly owned almost every library made since 2011 at some point, but this is what you’ll find in my orchestral template today.

    Winds - VSL Woodwinds I and II plus Special Winds

    Brass - Berlin Brass (this library takes me right back to orchestral rehearsals while standing at the conductor’s podium. IMO, Berlin Brass is the gold standard for all libraries right now)

    Percussion - Berlin Timpani and Percussion combined with some VSL Percussion, (and a few separate pieces, Alive Cymbals, Sonicculture’s Marimba and Vibraphone).

    Harp - Spitfire
    Piano - CSP or Ivory D
    Choir - VSL

    Strings - Spitfire Sacconi Strings for FC. Berlin Strings Exp B, Spitfire Mural and CSS for sections. LASS LS on occasion.

    Extra - Albion ONE (each section has Albion ONE instruments for both fast composing, and some parts and layering.

    Final Reverb - Reverberate 2

    DAW: Digital Performer with Vienna Ensemble Pro
    Notation: Finale, Notion iOS (iPad Pro with Apple Pencil), and Notion for macOS
    (2) 2010 12-core Mac Pros, 96GBs RAM each, (6) Samsung PCIe mounted SM951 flash SSDs for sample drives

    Steve Steele
    VSL Certified - Vienna Ensemble Pro template builder
     
  15. What Scarlett do you have? I have an 18i8 1st Gen and while it's not fantastic, it seems to get the job done. What do you hate about it?
     
  16. 6i6. Horrendous DAW performance. And no 2048 buffer to compensate. You can imagine my bafflement when I plugged it in for the first time, opened my most recent project and it wouldn't even play until I disabled half the FX.

    NI Audio 2 had better performance on the same buffer, and then a 2048 buffer on top of that (which is really just for mixing and finalization, as the delay is too much for playing). But it didn't have balanced outputs so it had to go. Eventually I went for 6i6 instead of Komplete Audio 6. I betrayed NI.

    For about a year, every hour I'd have to restart it because it started buzzing heavily on OS audio output (ASIO was fine). The long-awaited driver update pushed that timer to some 12 hours. It's still very fun when I suddenly play some music and only distorted exorcism comes out. On top of that, sudden changes in volume (on OS audio out, ASIO never had any issues beside super-poor performance) or just pure randomness will cause a 2-second stutter. If I'm sampling something internally with Audacity and the stutter happens, it gets recorded, so it's on driver level. The closest they were spaced was 2 minutes, but sometimes they don't happen for a few hours. It's pretty annoying when I'm listening to music and the stuttering comes on.

    I won't mess around anymore. I'll do myself a favor and buy an RME interface next so I don't have to think about that stuff for the next 20 years.
     
  17. @Mike Verta

    I just read the linked article, and I recall when this happened. I am still dumbfounded by a few things, if you don't mind me asking.
    (Ignore if I am undoing 4 years of therapy)

    1. Did you get any pushback from the players after the Film music mag article came out and published your disappointment ?
    2. Was this a three hour call ?
    3. If so...... what happened ??!! I have the score from your class, and looking it over..... it's not THAT hard. I can't believe they would move at
    two minutes per/hour. There are some really tricky spots, but it's only in spots. There are large passages that are right down the middle in terms of difficulty.
    (I am assuming this is a transposed score, and those high Bb's in the horn are too. Plus you know the players, and are doing that because you know them, and what they can do.)

    Just reading that article makes me flabbergasted once again upon hearing about this. I would think any professional orchestra in the US would get this down 100% solid within the single call, or even 90 min. There are plenty of standard orchestral pieces in the classical cannon that exceed this piece in difficulty and receive less rehearsal time.

    Bizarre. Empathy for you. That could not have been fun.
     

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